Ashes of Creation sets its sights on crowdfunding stretch goals

After smashing expectations by completely funding its $750,000 Kickstarter campaign in the first 12 hours, Ashes of Creation wants to keep this crowdfunding momentum going for the next month. Enter stretch goals.

The first three stretch goals for the campaign have been posted, starting with tavern “games of chance” being included if a cool million is raised. At $1.25M, enhanced mounts with group functionality will be added, and even more naval content (additional ships and underwater environments) is possible if the $1.5M barrier is breached. Didn’t know the game had naval content? Neither did we — until now!

Intrepid Studios CEO Steven Sharif thanked fans for the support so far: “I cannot fully express our sincere gratitude for the overwhelming support that you have shown us. Today we funded over 750k for Ashes of Creation in less than 12 hours, making this project one of the fastest in history. I started Ashes of Creation out of a passion for the MMORPG genre, and a love for our community. That love has never been stronger than it is right now. I promise you that we will not stop, until Ashes becomes the new standard of gaming. With love from everyone at Intrepid Studios, thank you.”

Let’s start an office pool in the comments: How high do you think the Kickstarter campaign will go before all is said and done? I’m banking on $2 million.

Source: Kickstarter
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84 Comments on "Ashes of Creation sets its sights on crowdfunding stretch goals"

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Necromonger

Europeans have a hard time to pledge money for the kickstarter as we do not own creditcards.

And it seems its imposible to pledge without a valid creditcard so they are losing out on a fcton of money wich is ashame as i want to buy a 125+ euro package but cant due to the limited payment options :(

Reader
Brother Maynard

Here you go, directly from the ECB:

Payments statistics for 2015
● The total number of non-cash payments in the EU increased by 8.5% to 112.1 billion in 2015 compared with the previous year.
● Card payments accounted for 47% of all transactions, while credit transfers accounted for 26% and direct debits for 21%.
● The number of cards issued (781 million) represented around 1.5 payment cards per EU inhabitant.
● Almost 51 billion transactions were processed by retail payment systems in the EU with an amount of €41.1 trillion.

Enjoy the whole read here: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pdf/pis/pis2015.pdf

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Brother Maynard

Europeans have a hard time to pledge money for the kickstarter as we do not own creditcards.

Err… what?

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Loyal Patron
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Makhiel

A debit card works as well.

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Rhime

Sigh..guess we’ll be following this game now for the next three years…ugh.

Leontes
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Leontes

I very much hope so. – That aside, who is forcing you to?

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Rhime

While you are correct, it’s almost impossible to not be force fed headlines and progress reports on new games on this site and many others. It’s just getting harder to give a shit about something that may take years to release.

Solaris
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Solaris

Given that this 2 day old Kickstarter will break 1 million by Wed. AM, I’m going to guess they could hit 2.5 million if they run the Kickstarter well.

Reader
Lethality

To all those who glommed onto the “ITS A PYRAMID SCHEME” before you even pulled your foot our of your mouth…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84EevAKfeqA

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Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

Straight outta the gate – referral link at the top of his description. Hahahaha.

Skimmed through a bit and he’s saying that because folks in the middle can hypothetically earn nothing from their referrals because their referrals are getting their costs covered by the referrals they themselves got, doesn’t change anything.

The goal is still to get everyone chasing referrals to fund their own subs, which is what folks are going to do. That means more folks subbing which benefits…wait for it…the top of the pyramid rather than those beneath, just like a pyramid scheme! Pyramid schemes are always designed to benefit those at the very top, and not the suckers beneath them, no matter what level they’re at.

That video disproves nothing in the slightest. But I do have some great investment opportunities for yourself and a bunch of other folks, apparently : 3

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Utakata

To ask a *dumb pigtailed question…aren’t all Kickstarters pyramid schemes then?

*Note: In my ignorance on the matter, I just want to know why this KS game developer is any more or less shiftier than others. o.O

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

It doesn’t actually seem to be a pyramid scheme under the actual definition of pyramid scheme vs. what people think a pyramid scheme is. Not all MLMs are illegal / pyramid schemes either. This is basically an affiliate scheme, also not illegal. Icky, maybe, but harmless, as the worst thing that can happen is that you have no one left to recruit and you actually pay your own sub to the game (horrors, I know).

Most of the objection seems to be to 1) somebody is making money and 2) Sharif’s MLM background. We have asked him more about the second and will post when we have his reply.

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Utakata

Thank you for explaining that. :)

….and for us who are little unfamiliar with the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing

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Lethality

You still don’t understand it.

The higher up in the referral stack you are, the WORSE it gets for you. It’s the opposite of a pyramid.

By referring people directly, that’s how you stand to gain the most.

So please explain how someone at the “top” of the pyramid has an advantage over some new bottom feeder who has six friends he can refer immediately?

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Greaterdivinity

It’s “worse”? No, no it’s not. You think those folks who are no longer seeing referral rewards because their referees have their own are going to stop hunting down new referrals? That largely seemed to be the core belief of the video guys argument, and it’s something that’s blatantly false in the extreme.

These MLM/pyramid schemes are designed for folks to constantly be trying to refer more folks, not just hit their “quota” and stop.

The top of the pyramid is Sharif, dude. He’s absolutely reaping all the benefits as he’s the one who is ultimately getting paid because of this. You’re freely generating more revenue for him in the hunt to maybe cover your own costs, and if you can’t cover your own costs you’re still generating him revenue either way. He literally does not lose regardless of the situation of those in the higher up, in the middle, or at the bottom of the pyramid.

Edit: Again, this is assuming the allegations are true, which I don’t know about yet (haven’t looked into them). But it sure shines a light on and explains their comments about prioritizing aesthetics over performance – http://massivelyop.com/2017/02/09/ashes-of-creation-demos-new-dungeon-video-wont-sacrifice-aesthetics-for-performance/

Visuals help sell a game to new folks (the goal of a pyramid scheme), they don’t retain players like solid performance (which is not the goal of a pyramid scheme).

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Lethality

C’mon man, you’re not dumb. I’ve seen you post here, and you’re not making sense. I’m not sure how it’s not sinking in. It’s super-simple.

For every referral my referrals refer, I get LESS credit because they are paying less into the system. Therefore… 15% of less… is… less.

This is a referral system that every company on earth uses. I referred 8 of my friends to DirecTV. I get $80 credit per month ($10/each).

Yes the goal of an MLM is as you say – but this isn’t an MLM so the goals are different. It’s a flat system.

It’s ok to be wrong, the first step is admitting it.

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Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

…you realize you literally just pointed out the difference between a standard referral system a la DirectTV…and AoC’s referral system which is markedly different.

Yes, you get less credit (assuming we’re all understanding the referral system correctly) when your referees refer more. That’s by design. As a result, you now need to go out and refer more friends, who will in turn try to refer their own friends, requiring you to yet again refer more friends to reach the same level of referral revenue etc. etc. etc. etc.

Notice how there’s no end to it, and that you’re constantly needing to put in additional work without any additional benefit? Notice how that’s markedly different than your DirectTV example? Again, that’s by design, and a key component of how many MLM schemes are set up. The folks who make up the overwhelming majority of the scheme pay into it, rather than seeing any benefits. The benefits are really only seen by a small number of folks at the top.

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Lethality

Again, the top has no benefit. It has less. I guess we’ll just part on this one.

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Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

Again, the top is Sharif. He’s the ultimate beneficiary of this, just as the head of all MLM schemes are. They’re designed to seem appealing for normal folks, but ultimately they all funnel money from the participants as a whole to those that are running the show.

That is literally how these schemes are designed to work and that’s exactly what this system with AoC looks like when presented in the context of Sharif’s past history with MLM schemes.

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Tufao

Wait for release to pay for it. Developers don’t deserve to make money without delivering. Now that they are funded, wait for release and then, start the talking of improving the game.
The estimated delivery date is an obvious bait-and-switch on this campaign too.

As more these devs keep the approach to lie in their campaigns, less chances crowdfunding have of actually becoming something more.

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Stephen Donohue

Really hopeful for this one. I’ve always loved the idea of players settling the world and player driven caravans travelling from city to city. 2018 can’t come fast enough.

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Raimo Kangasniemi

My guess is they will get 2.75 million.

Many of the comments here… MMO genre doesn’t need enemies with friends like us.

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Norlamin

Honestly, I like their stretch goals so far. They’re not crazy, brand new systems, just a continuation and bonuse added to already pre-existing systems.

Solaris
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Solaris

That naval stretch goal is really the only one I care about. Looking like they will break $1m my tomorrow am. So odds are good Naval in is.

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Utakata

Ah yes….S t r e t c h g o a l s, FEATURE CREEP, soft launch

…words that are complimentary where the terms of “Kickstarter” and MMO’s are concerned. They could almost make good bookends. O.o

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MesaSage

I think they’ll set a new record, raising $1 Billion.

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FVerret
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FVerret

More navel content? Like this?

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silverlock

Wake me when they get close to the Naval one.

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Necromonger

Even if he gets half the game done it will be better then all those turds we have now.

Dont forget he payed the first whole year of development and beyond out of his own pocket.

If this mmo goes down so does he wich is diffrent from a studio who can pull the plug and vanish into thin air.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

Yeah! Cause you know what happens to guys that promise the sun and moon and stars in mmos.

Gamers won’t stand for being promised grandiose things and then not being delivered on. Not after Molyneaux , and Romera, and McQuaid, and Murray and… well…

They just won’t stand for it!

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Armsman

1) These are mostly former SOE Devs on their team. You know, the team that lost Sony so much money they cut them loose – and who formed “Daybreak Games” which released so many successful games that after a year the CEO – John Smedly bailed to go work for a new Team at Amazon.

2)They actually put EverQuest Next as a selling point as to something some members previously worked on; (you remember EQNext – the next absolutely groundbreaking and going to be the BEST MMO ever…until it was cancelled…)

2) Taken Directly from their “Risks and Challenges” section of the Kickstarter:

We also may find that certain systems or mechanics that we’re talking about today simply aren’t fun or good for the health of the game. In those cases, be aware that the game may change in fundamental ways as we work through feedback, testing, and polish. The vision will always remain the same, but how we get there might not.

To me the above reads as: “Hey, we hope we can do what we say – but hey, if not be prepared for EverQuest 3 because in the same way EverQuestNext didn’t pan out – we reserve the right to rehash what we’ve done before 20 or so years ago, but with better graphics.”

To be fair to them though – at least they’re up front about that aspect from day one. Honestly, iof this launches, I may give it a look – but for me – no effectively promoting that “Hey we’re all former SOE Devs here…” isn’t going to get me to Pledge ahead of time as while I do understand many people LOVED SWG from day one – my honest feeling during beta testing and the first year was: “Wow – how can you get the license for one of the world’s most popular IPs and create a game that DOESN’T really capture the feel of the IP?”; because yeah, for me Star Wars wasn’t about resource gathering or crafting and dancing at tables to progress; but those were the aspects that seemed to get the most attention at the start. YMMV. And further yeah, after the whole development debacle that WAS EQNext; I think it shows a lack of understanding to promote that: “Hey, here’s the last game where we were going to add all these new systems; but at the end, they didn’t work/weren’t fun…but this time…(oh, BTW read the ‘Risks and Challenges’ section as we hedge our bets..)” because again, while they ARE upfront here; I doubt it will balm people who backed because they believe this game might be what was promised for EQNext IF, as the actual game takes shape – those features don’t pan out and start to be cut.

Time will tell. If they really do pull it off, I may take a look; but I don’t think there’s much of a pedagree to their Dev Team myself. YMMV..

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

Arms. “Worked for SOE several years ago as a day-to-day developer with literally no hand in how the business was run then or now” is not a disqualifying attribute for a dev. If it were, every dev would be out of a job. Ditto for “I worked on a game that got canceled two iterations and a studio changeover and two CEO changeovers later.” And a caveat that game systems might change is practically boilerplate. Even if they didn’t say that, you’d be a fool not to expect it. Every MMO ever has dropped features and changed one plan or another midway.

There’s stuff to be concerned about with this game. These things aren’t it.

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kelvar

What are the concerns @Bree? I pledged a large amount of money, convinced another friend to do the same and then convinced another friend to pledge as well! All without referrals – did I steer them wrong / make a mistake myself?

We’re all eager for a high fantasy Western sub MMO that isn’t Pantheon (zero faith in that one)

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Matthew Yetter

How do you know that THESE devs were the specific ones responsible for SOE putting stuff out that didn’t prove profitable? How do you know that their hands weren’t being tied by design docs and management decisions that were being given to them? (Put another way, you can have a master chef but if you only give him garbage for ingredients and force him to use a lousy recipe, is it his fault that the meal is awful?)

As for EQNext, we’ll probably never know exactly how it devolved into something that got canned. Again, were there a lot of bad management decisions? Were these devs the ones that were responsible for the failure, or were they simply doing the best they could within what they were given to work with? A couple things that are definitely worth pointing out is that EQNext depended heavily on voxel technology and StoryBricks AI. Neither of those is a part of AoC and I haven’t seen anything to indicate that this team is trying to incorporate anything even remotely resembling those technologies. So it would seem to me that if anything, they have learned from the EQNext experience. Not a bad thing, in my book.

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Armsman

How do you know that THESE devs were the specific ones responsible for SOE putting stuff out that didn’t prove profitable?

How? EVERY GAME they list that their Dev Team worked on (except for Vanguard – which wasn’t fully developed by SOE, BUT STILL launched and supported by SOE post launch) IS/WAS an SOE (now Daybreak studios) game. Also, you may have faith that all the systems he wants to incorporate will work – but again, even HE isn’t 100% certain of that (and I do give him props for admitting that up front in the Kickstarter ‘Risk and Challeges section”:

We also may find that certain systems or mechanics that we’re talking about today simply aren’t fun or good for the health of the game. In those cases, be aware that the game may change in fundamental ways as we work through feedback, testing, and polish. The vision will always remain the same, but how we get there might not.

And sorry Bree, a group of Devs that primarily worked for a failed company (that was by all accounts loosing money for years) is definitely something to be concerned about because the investors that have given this new company development capital will want a return (read profit) for their investment. As for:

Bree:
“Worked for SOE several years ago…”

They list “EQNext” – a game that never made it past Alpha (and ‘Landmark’ was not EQNext) which was hardly “years ago”.

Bottom Line: Who on that Dev team has delivered a game (again given the list of games) that made money for Sony (you know, the ‘S’ in SOE)?

Answer: None.

Also, realize WHY most games these days are F2P or B2P? Reason: It makes the companies developing and running them MORE PROFIT. And before you go crying “Well, gaming isn’t always about profit…” – I hate to burst your bubble, but when you have investors looking for a return, yes, in the end it is. I also hope SOMEONE in that company has game business experience on the money side (neither MLM nor Real Estate is really the same in that regard); or the long term surviveabilty and viability may be in question no matter what form it ultimately launches in.)

Now, does all the above mean this project will fail? No. But (IMO) – there are so many red flags here given the history of the team, and the proposed business model that one should really gauge the risk of backing this project.

Again believe it or not – I DO hope they succeed. But honestly, (aside from the outlier known as World of Warcraft); there aren’t many subscription MMOs left on the market – and I’m sure some of those are because they can’t afford to convert; or really see a way to better monetize to increase profitability.

I believe the person in charge does indeed have a vision and belief in the game he’s creating. That said, in the current environment, I honestly question the longrterm viability of his revenue generation plan. I could be completely wrong and this game could usher in a resurgence of the ‘Sub Only’ model – but given what I see of the market today – i don’t think so. But that is just my opinion.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

“Bottom Line: Who on that Dev team has delivered a game (again given the list of games) that made money for Sony (you know, the ‘S’ in SOE)?”

Whaaa? EQ, PS, SWG, EQII, Vanguard, and PS2 all made money for Sony at one time or another. EQN is the only one on the list that didn’t make money, chiefly because it never left R&D, and how could it when the principals (not these folks) sent it back to the drawing board multiple times and kept pouring good money after bad, which helped hasten the capsize.

I feel like we’re not on the same page in terms of what SOE did and how big it was and who controlled the money and how EQN went down. The fact that SmedCo ran the ship aground — and yes, it’s been well over two years, so to have worked on EQN for SOE rather than Daybreak is several years ago now — really doesn’t reflect whatsoever on the quality and qualifications of mid-level engineers and creative designers and artists on multiple successful and groundbreaking titles over the course of the preceding 15 years. This is precisely why studios like Blizzard are so quick to snap them up when SOE and Daybreak cast them off.

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Armsman

Yep – they were so profitable and had such a great ROI that Sony decided to sell SOE off.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

This is not a good argument. Just because it took a company 20 years to be sold doesn’t mean it never made any money. And now you’ve shifted to argue about how-profitable when your original claim was not-profitable, when the reality is both are completely irrelevant to whether these devs who left years ago and had no hand in the running of the business are good at their actual dev jobs.

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Matthew Yetter

Armsman forgets that SoE had massive numbers of employees. So many, in fact, that shortly after switching to Daybreak they laid off 140 workers from San Diego, alone. In a big corporate environment such as that, even top level designers cannot always be blamed for failures. Very often, that blame goes to the business managers/executives.

We see the same thing happen in the movie industry. Studio executives force script rewrites and other development decisions in an effort to “broaden market appeal” without any real understanding or perhaps even care about what these changes do to the final product. To blame the Director of Photography for the box office flop that follows would be highly disingenuous. Heck, it’s so bad that sometimes even the film’s director refuses to be involved anymore and walks from the project.

What was the point where SOE started to go downhill? I think it’s safe to say that it was when Smedley took the reins. Smedley was running the show (and therefore responsible) for things like that spy MMO that never happened, FreeRealms, the huge design direction change with EQNext, etc. What was the point where LotRO started to stagnate in its development and focus more on things that made immediate profits (like lockboxes) than on things that truly enriched the game? It was when WB took over. When did players really start worrying about LotRO’s future? When they learned that WB wanted to get out of the MMO business. No matter how good a designer might be, his designs are only as good as the executive decisions allow them to be. And what is the first thing that any “good” executive does when things go bad? He shifts the blame to the designers, who either end up quitting or getting fired. Only when there’s nobody left to blame does the real rat end up going down with the ship.

For me, the key red flag is Steven Sharif himself. He has no experience at all in the MMO industry, yet he’s the creative director. But is that a bad thing? All it necessarily means is that he had a vision. His chances of turning that vision into reality depends on the people he hires to make it happen. Meanwhile, the fact that he doesn’t have an industry background could actually be a GOOD thing, given how much the industry has stagnated.

Jeffrey Bard is the lead game designer. His work at SOE was entirely EQ2. Interestingly, before he switched to designing he was a Senior Supervisor of Customer Support — in other words, he heard complaints from customers and was in a position to really understand what players do and don’t like. Not a bad thing.

Jason Crawford was the big EQNext guy to come over to the AoC team. This was in the client/server capacity, which means he probably wasn’t responsible for anything regarding implementing voxels or StoryBricks. But he was certainly in a position to see the nightmares that apparently took place with those technologies and so may be why AoC didn’t even try.

Trystan Snodgrass was never involved with SOE or Daybreak. He WAS involved with games like Bioshock Infinite and XCOM. Again, not a bad thing.

The two Senior Game Designers, I can’t find out anything about. Everyone else listed is either involved with operations or part of the art team. The former have nothing to do with the actual development of the game. The latter would have had nothing to do with any of the failures at their previous employers and are clearly doing an incredible job on AoC, which looks absolutely stunning and has produced incredible visuals for a Kickstarter title.

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Dug From The Earth

100% conspiracy

Zander
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Zander

Agreed. Armsman works for the big publishers. Another henchmen to take down the crowd funding machine. ;)

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Armsman

Yep, that’s why I backed ‘Star Citizen’ at the start, because I work for the big publishers and hate Crowdfunding. (Oh, and I backe SC because I always wanted a Wing Commander style MMO and I loved Chris Roberts ‘Wing Commander’ series of games and his ‘Privateer’ game. In other words he had a game development history I liked and a habit of pulling off what others saod was ‘impossible’ in a computer game.)

If I felt the same about SOE and the developers on this game, I might have backed it; but in my experience with SOE games (and SOE game Devs who I interacted with during betas – no, they don’t strike me as a group who can deliver.

That’s me. Others may have a comopletely different view and obviously, a LOT of people believe in this idea for an MMO, and the Dev team gathered to create it.

And that’s what’s nice about sites like MOP – we all have a forum to express our own personal opinions. :)

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Dug From The Earth

They should only have ONE stretch goal.

The “Get it done Right” stretch goal.

Whatever money they make over their target, should be spent in insuring the game is done correctly, done on time, and done in the most polished, stable, and playable fashion possible.

STOP ADDING BLOAT just because you get more money.

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BDJ

Sigh. Why do they have to go into stretch goals. How about one of these damned developers actually use all of the extra money and finish the core game FFS

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M∀RK

Because you don’t need to make a good game if you’ve already got their money. It’s kickstarter 101.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

Actual reason is that everything in the stretch goals is already planned to go into the core game and often will even if the stretch goal isn’t made. This isn’t bloat. That is how you do a Kickstarter if you are any good at Kickstarter.

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Bhima Jenkins

Game is looking great, but I am skeptical that $1m is enough to make a polished MMO. They probably need closer to $10m at least to do it right. I don’t give to kickstarter video games anymore, as I’d rather just buy a game that is actually made and not give money in the hopes a game gets made. Regardless, I wish them luck and will keep an eye on this one.

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kelvar

I felt the same. However, they did mention in the FAQ they already have all the funding they need to deliver a core, viable game and that this additional funding is for further polish / enhancements etc.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

ther’s been some eye brow raising questions about how the lead guy made his money to fund this game and the referal program (which is more like commission sales imo) on reddit. sharif responded to those questions here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/68tk1l/why_the_ashes_of_creation_referral_program_is_not/dh1912j/?st=j27rz087&sh=9945075e

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

As per his explanation, if I understand it.

So if a very popular twitch streamer or youtube personality decided that they want to make more money they would look to AoC to begin creating content, youtube videos, twitch streams, etc… which focus on the game and getting more people to go play it and, arguably, spend money on it.

The streamers and youtubers make money because they are using their influence to advertise for the game in lieu of free stuff in game or cash.

AOC wins because the more people are advertised to, the more likely there are people who will join and spend in the game.

The only people who don’t really ‘win’ are latecomers who might try to push friends and guild members into playing so they can make a few dollars.

It still sounds like a pyramid just one that’s been turned upside down. The flow is still the same though.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/multi-level-marketing.asp

All being said, I’m not sure I’d be comfortable in a game where it felt like my guildies were pushing me to buy stuff so they get a kickback.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

yep that’s pretty much how it works with streamers and youtubers in general with referal links you can find on their videos.

wether it’s g2a or this or star citizen, it’s generally youtubers/streamers that win in those kinds of scenarios.

and occasionally people in zerg/big guilds.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

About the only kind of advertising I like is when I am sitting at my Alienware computer enjoying a fresh Diet Dr. Pepper and watching Proper People Youtube videos. Most advertising makes me pull off my SkullCandy headphones and go off and play with my NEW Nintendo Switch which I got at Walmart for 199.00 with a free copy of Breath of the Wild. I had to hurry because it was on sale only until this Sunday.

At the end of Proper People videos they sometimes describe the type of cameras or lights they use in exploring.

/e stops, looks around and then whispers, “When do they all pay me for advertising for them?”

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

you need to embed referal links in your keywords as hyperlinks XD

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

That sounds complicated. I wish advertising was like it was in the old days.

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Oleg Chebeneev
deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

that is what i linked. LOL

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agemyth 😩

Here’s the lead developer’s response to those issues

Just in case nobody else linked it around here.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

I lol’ed. <3

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agemyth 😩

Why did my Reddit link get the fancy embed treatment but the two above did not 🤔

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

embeds in this comment system only work when they’re on their own line free of any other text. probably why.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

LOL

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agemyth 😩

…All of that money goes to media.. Media that doesn’t care about the game, just wants to reach a bottom line for revenue (in my opinion)…

/eyeroll Media aren’t supposed to care about your game just because you give them money.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i think he means youtubers and twitch streamers. and yes money talks volumes to them.

look at total biscuit and all his integrity totally loving the hell out of planetside 2 totally and not because of SOE’s paying him right up until his promotional contract ended and he suddenly hated it and SOE.

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agemyth 😩

I deleted my own jab at “influencers” and the like from my previous post because I feel like I complain about them too much and sound like an old person 😋

They have their place in things, but their issues are different and so should their goals be.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i generally just take issue with them when they try to postures as things other than what they are actually doing.

and i guess also in TB’s case when he gives people erroneous legal advice that isn’t even remotely how the law works.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

Yeah, that whole bit made me giggle. It’s like he’s trying to tell us that he’s a bullshit artist without outright saying it.

That kinda shit is literally outta the MLM handbook to try to recruit new folks.

I mean, he’s right, media don’t care about the ads. Because they’re not supposed to, separation of church and state and all that. The ads get played because you paid for them, that’s it.

Reader
Patreon Donor
Kickstarter Donor
agemyth 😩

Seems like a bit of a double standard. Developers/creators are just as easy to dismiss as looking to “reach a bottom line” or whatever.

MMOs do seem to have a rough time getting coverage outside of niche places like Massively. That makes sense when you are making a game you know is a niche title though.

Reader
Lethality

Can’t be more transparent than that.

Guys – this is someone who made his money, and he’s a gamer – he’s not trying to get richer off of this. He’s got an opportunity that most of us would love – to execute the game of his dreams and play it!

Cheer for him, don’t crucify him.

Reader
Jacobin GW

Known scammer decides to enter MMO genre…

Reader
Lethality

Where’s the proof of him as a scammer? You may want to watch out, because you really aren’t allowed to cast stones like that without potential repercussions, legally.

Reader
kidwithknife

Legal repercussions? Really? Aside from the fact that that’s not true, it really doesn’t do much to make this project seem less sketchy.

Reader
Lethality

You’re not allowed to say anything you want, even on the internet, without repercussions. You’ll find out someday, if not sooner.

Reader
kidwithknife

Yeah, I’ll be sure to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

“Here’s this guy who allegedly made all his money off of scams, asking us for money for another project. Surely he’s trustworthy…right?”

Am I interpreting your post right? Because that’s how it reads to me…

Reader
Lethality

Where’s the proof of a scammer?

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

Hence why I used alleged, and did say he was a scammer. I’ve not fully looked into all the allegations yet (of which the folks provide links to, which is nice), but anyone involved in MLM schemes is instantly questionable to me given that those often end up being little more than pyramid schemes.

And as I said elsewhere, some of the verbiage of his response (specifically about not buying media but instead relying on referrals) is straight outta pyramid scheme MLM handbooks, which raises all kinds of alarms.

I get that you’re big into all these hyper-niche, longshot projects (given my recollection of your post history), but they’re the very type of games that should be scrutinized the most heavily. They promise the sun and moon on shoestring budgets, they promise AAA quality with a development team that’s not worked on a single AAA game, or even any games in some instances. It’s important as consumers that we critically view anyone asking for our money, and do our due diligence to ensure we don’t end up scammed or funding a completely unreasonable and achievable project.

camren_rooke
Reader
camren_rooke

Thank you.

Maybe it’s Buyer’s Bias.
Maybe it’s Maybelline.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

Hard to have buyer’s bias when you can cancel your KS pledge for the next 30 days, yeah?

(If they don’t answer our/other peeps’ interview questions in a way that makes me feel comfortable keeping my pledge in, I sure will remove it. 30 days is a looooong time.)

Reader
life_isnt_just_dank_memes

I think they will raise 3-5 mil. Also, quoting from above, “even more navel content (additional ships and underwater environments) is possible if the $1.5M barrier is breached. Didn’t know the game had naval content? Neither did we — until now!” Naval combat is cool, but I really WANT that navel combat! Belly button lint wars?!

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

Thanks, typo fixed. Though it was a really great typo. I am sorry to kill your joy. :D

Reader
Necromonger

I was there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BjENdh8GLg&t=607s

This i will never forget as it was my first naval combat in an amazing pvp mmo wich got infested with the cancerous pay to win :(

Zander
Reader
Zander

Was there with you just on Ollo West. We’d still be playing if XL/Trion had realized what they had and not bait’n’switched at launch.

pepperzine
Reader
pepperzine

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Melissa McDonald

at least she didn’t say “get your stinking paws off of me, you damn dirty human” :)

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