Saga of Lucimia explains its new combat system and why you need a team to fight a bear

Bears! Godless killing machines with mouths like rows of daggers, claws like differently arranged rows of daggers, and fur like particularly soft and non-painful daggers. You won’t want to face them alone in Saga of Lucimia; if you’re taking them on in the game’s current test build, you will want a party of three or four people. Which still makes them one of the easier enemies to take down, but it will also give you a chance to test out the game’s combat revision, which strongly reinforces character ability mastery.

To summarize: the combat system now has all skills getting an associated stamina cost. It also takes time to swap a skill off of your hotbar and to place another one on there. As your mastery in a given field increases, the time needed to swap becomes shorter and shorter, and the stamina cost of (most) abilities also decreases. So you had still better heavily plan out what you’ll need before an encounter.

You can also find out more about the build and the game’s name policing from the videos just below, if you prefer your information to be in video format. We shan’t judge.

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Melissa McDonald

Took a whole team to bring down that undead bear on Game of Thrones…. so hey, sounds about right to me.

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Tim Anderson

Nevermind the single bear against a man with primitive weapons in The Revenant :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVtqXydhbIE

We always come back to that when someone says “but I should be able to solo a bear!”

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Paragon Lost

Bears… Nature’s land boss fight.

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Sray

Best of luck to these guys, but multiplayer games live and die by the ability of the player to log in for 30 to 60 minutes and just play, without having to spend half that time getting ready. I suppose they might be able to find small dedicated 15 to 20k that can keep the game afloat, but a game with a large amount of group of requirements for just basic play is likely to have low concurrency Mondays to Fridays; making it a big maybe to be able to draw even a small, dedicated audience.

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Tim Anderson

That’s well within our projected expectations for target audience, and we’re more than comfortable with being a niche product.

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Chosenxeno .

There’s niche and there’s dead…Is being dead your niche? If, so. Allow me to be the 1st to say grats. Count the guys in your Development studio. There’s your population number:)

You’re comfortable with 15 to 20k, eh? Looks like someone is looking to do some WHALE hunting.

Tizmah
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Tizmah

And the odd thing is, people will wait in 15-30 minute raid/primal/dungeon ques like FFXIV…Yet you say there is not much market for that.

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Sray

That’s a highly selective example that doesn’t examine the full situation: there’s a difference between choosing to stand around waiting for a group, and having no choice in the matter. Those people in FFXIV, or WoW ,or whatever other MMO you want to name aren’t prevented from still playing the game in some kind of meaningful capacity: you might be waiting 15 to 30 minutes in a dungeon queue, but you’re still able to hop in and go do something like dailies or even just randomly killing stuff in the world. This game is making grouping pretty much mandatory without any sort of “quick play” option; in fact it’s specifically pushing those options away.

And this is not the same as solo content either, I’ll point out. Making a game without solo content is perfectly accepable, but there has to be some sort of capacity for the solo player to jump into something almost immediately. Whether it’s public group events like Destiny, or an ongoing “zone in and out as you want” PvP battleground instances, there has to be some sort of hop in and go option.

Without some sort of “quick play” option, retaining even that targeted 15 to 20k is going to be extremely difficult. If a person with an half hour of free time can’t do anything at 10pm on a Tuesday night because there’s no “quick play” option there will be a massive barrier to player retention. Even among that 15 to 20k who want to like the game, and who want to play it, players who aren’t available outside of peak hours are going to find it awfully difficult to justify the subscription to a game that demands they have at least two or three hours at a time to play, when there’s no one to play with during the times they have available.

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Tim Anderson

There will be PLENTY of micro-session content (30 minutes to 1 hour) for players to enjoy. Explore short distances around cities/outposts with 2-3 other players….craft…roleplay…harvest mats….play around with cosmetic choices…

Dungeons, however, require full groups, and that means setting up 2-3 hours of gameplay in advance, just like with a tabletop session. Just like in EverQuest.

There is ZERO requirement to have 2-3 hours EVERY time you sit down to play. I meet up Mon-Wed-Fri for 2-3 hour sessions with folks in EverQuest, as an example, but beyond that…I may log in for 30-45 minutes on a Tuesday afternoon to work on crafting, or for 20 minutes on Friday morning to prep my gear for Monday night, or an hour on Thursday on an alt to help guildies and roleplay a bit.

Hell, most of the development team are LUCKY if we have 10-15 hours a WEEK to play games outside of family life, day jobs, and development. But if you want to explore the depths of our world, you have to be able to make that commitment.

Think about Dungeons & Dragons; the vast majority of sessions aren’t just one person sitting at a table with a Dungeon Master playing for 15-20 minutes. Rather, the most fun is had when you are sitting around with a group of friends sharing in adventures together over sessions that last several hours and span the course of weeks, months, and even years as you and your partners embody the heroes that undertake epic adventure after epic adventure in the worlds they inhabit.

Ours is a team-based MMORPG where the best rewards in terms of adventure, storyline and gear, come from overcoming challenging content that is experienced with a team of your best friends and allies by your side.

For more information, read this blog post on The Meaning of Group-Based Gameplay.

FAQ

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Sray

Like I said, best of luck, but it sounds like you’re aiming for the most exciting game of 1999 to me. There’s an audience for that, but it’s going to be an uphill battle with retention if you have to plan your week’s entire social schedule around a dungeon run in your game.

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Tim Anderson

And yet here we are. Nearly four years after many started claiming our failure back in 2014…and have been repeating it with force every time we put out a new video or blog post.

And yet we have a community that has grown, day by day, filled with people who want exactly what we are building.

And yet we have investors on board (funny thing about investors is they require proof of progress and proof of success before they will invest, since they want a secured return) and are expanding our team starting in January.

It’s niche, it’s old-school, and it might not be what YOU want to play, but we’re doing just fine in the population department :)

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Sray

That’s all fine and good, but a live game in the wild is a different beast than the controlled environment you have right now. The changes over the last 20 years haven’t come out of nowhere: they were demanded by pmayers who wanted games that worked in today’s world. We’ve already seen a much larger project (Wildstar) than yours that had a growing community through its development of a “old school and hardcore” game that said “this is awesome”; and the same guys fled like rats from a sinking ship when faced with the reality of actually paying for the game that they’d thought they wanted.

I’m not saying that you don’t have an audience; I’m saying retention in a live game is going to be extremely difficult if me having to take care of my sick kid ruins the plans of 10 other people for a whole week.

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Tim Anderson

Well I guess we’re screwed then, and were set up to drown before we even stepped foot on this (apparently) sinking ship

Five Reasons NOT To Pre-Order The Saga Of Lucimia

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Sray

Tim, you seem to be taking this awfully personally. I’m not attacking you, I’m just someone merely pointing out a difficulty for your game’s long term retention. A problem that exists for any MMORPG, but moreso for your game given the set up. If literally no one has pointed out the exact same things I have to you at this point in our discussion, you need some more diverse opinions in your crew.

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Tim Anderson

Thing is, we hear from people just like you every day of the week and have heard every single possible reason from every single possible angle about why the way we are doing things is a “problem”, or “wrong”, or “doomed to fail” or “difficult”.

We have a canned, automatic reply to such comments: “Yep. We’re wrong. Doomed to fail. And here’s the reasons why you shouldn’t bother to be interested in our project.”

Because we have zero interest in listening to naysayers. They aren’t our target market. We aren’t designing the game for them.

We also hear from an equal amount of people who are happy, love what we are doing, join our community, pre-order, or are at least interested enough to keep us on their radar until launch.

Who is “right” in that equation?

Customer retention is a major part of ANY business. If we had gone into this project without that in mind, we’d have been screwed since day one.

Thankfully, this isn’t my first rodeo.

We’ll be in touch if we need any consulting on our business model.

Happy Holidays!

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Sray

Please ignore my first response to this comment, I’ve flagged it for deletion. I was way out of line, and I sincerely appologize.

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Sray

Sorry, that 1999 crack was uncalled for. I stand behind the sentiment, but I could have put it in a far more polite way, and I appologize.

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Schlag Sweetleaf

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Skor

Every time I see an update on this game’s progress, I lose interest. So sad, I really liked the original concept as presented. But they take things too far. Good luck with the small circle of friends playing this game, after all that seems to be who the devs are making this game for. Why even make it open to the public? Just create the game for your circle of friends and call it good.

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Russell Hunt

I get the exact opposite feeling. Every update I get more and more interested in the game. They will certainly have my small group of friends playing.

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Chosenxeno .

((Deleted by mod. Please review the commenting code.))

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Stropp

That’s a bit rough. It may not be for you or me, but there will be some who want this type of game.

Whether that’s enough to sustain it is another matter, but calling someone a shill because they want a type of game you don’t is uncalled for.

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Chosenxeno .

….

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Chosenxeno .

*Leaves before he rages…*

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Cosmic Cleric

*Leaves before he rages…*

I hate to “poke the bear” (see what I did thar?), but why rage? Que pass?

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Chosenxeno .

I can’t even… with these guys. At this point or the Pantheon devs. They seem hellbent on making games specifically for their respective development teams. You see. They haven’t learned that population is the Queen(with content being the King). When you are making a group-centric game the population size is very important. Can you look at some of the choices and say that a person who joins 3, 6, 10 months down the line will have a population to level with? I don’t either…

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Michael18

Looking through your comments in this thread it seems you somehow feel threatened by this game (and Pantheon, maybe). But there’s no need for that. It is very unlikely that SoL will be so successful and popular that it will cause the genre to shift MMO design in general. So you will still have all the single-player friendly and/or hop-in/hop-out MMOs catering to your play style and preferences.

Btw: no slight intended; these current MMOs and the play styles they are designed for are perfectly fine for those who like them (which is the majority of players anyway). But why being so salty when there might be 1-2 MMOs being developed that dare to cater for a different play style? Yes, it is risky. But leaving the beaten path always involves some more risk.

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Chosenxeno .

Why would I be threatened by these games when the absolute best Classic MMORPG is being re-released? They should be worried about that. I am here to save them.

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Robert Mann

Oh goodness, please stop. Nobody who isn’t in a life threatening situation is likely to want saving, and coming with that attitude to anyone is just rude.

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Robert Mann

So don’t play their games. I’m not exactly in line with either, but goodness gracious some DIVERSITY in what games are offering is a GOOD thing.

Mitzruti
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Mitzruti

things gleaned from this post:
there won’t be any targets for new players to learn how to fite before having to beg for a group.
a party wipe involves everybody losing all of their gear.
veteran plays will be massively more powerful than newbies.

…which will leave you in a situation where parties will always pass over the newbies, sending the game into a death spiral because it’s stupid hard to get started in.

sure, it’s cool that they’re unapologetic about making a tough group-centric game, but i fear they won’t be able to get the critical mass to make it work due to putting up every barrier under the sun to actually playing the game.

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Cosmic Cleric

but i fear they won’t be able to get the critical mass to make it work due to putting up every barrier under the sun to actually playing the game.

To be fair though, is it really barriers, or what we perceive as barriers, in comparisons with today’s MMOs (vs. yesteryears MMOs).

Not sure if the type of player who would exclude newbs would play this kind of game.

Mitzruti
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Mitzruti

suppose i didn’t word it so well. less of “we exclude you solely because you’re new” and more a “you’re too weak to be a good addition to our party, especially if we’re going to gamble all our gear on this”

how much of the community is still going to care about content a newbie can contribute to a year or so after release?

5seconds2urheart
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5seconds2urheart

Just likes in Eve, they say “noobs are welcome to join our group as long as you run our fit, fly what we say, and do as we say you can be a tackler er..erm uh cannon fodder with us! ” It’s loads of fun flying tackle in a frigate for 5 seconds trying to web a capital ship before you die while everyone else is fighting in the battle.
So this game can be just like that but with Bears.

Richard de Leon III
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Richard de Leon III

Hopefully they can get enough players. I’m passing for more solo-able fare.

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Cosmic Cleric

I’m passing for more solo-able fare.

There’s plenty of MMOs for that, will be kind of nice to have one that forces social interactions more.

Richard de Leon III
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Richard de Leon III

Which is why I’m hoping these guys will have enough players but I wouldn’t hedge my bets on it

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Cosmic Cleric

I’m hoping these guys will have enough players

What do you define as ‘enough’ ? Enough to keep the lights on, or enough to always get a queue popping, or WoW numbers, or, ??

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Robert Mann

There’s a few either out or coming, and I agree that some diversity is a sorely needed thing in the genre.

gelfred
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gelfred

Cant really see the uniqueness of the game so far, but its to be expected this early. They have some nice ideas so Its one I check in on every once in a while.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

Sure its gonna take a group to fight a bear but what about about a bare bear bear on a bear.

You gonna need an army.

putinbear.jpg
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Cosmic Cleric

That bear needs a better P.R. firm representing him/her.

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Melissa McDonald

That is glorious

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Stropp

The real question is: Does a bear Putin in the woods?