RIFT pulls pay-to-win packs out of the store — for now

    
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Gotta go to work, work all day.
Reacting to massive community pushback over what is perceived to be pay-to-win packs in the RIFT store, Trion Worlds announced that it is pulling the items — at least for now — to reevaluate the situation and ask the community for more feedback.

“We’ve seen the feedback on the limited time Collected Intel packs and have decided to take the short term action to switch them off for the time being (the holiday packs remain up),” CM Linda Carlson said. “Taking them offline now gives us time to review ALL the feedback, together with in-game data, next week when the dev team is back in office, and make careful, reasoned decisions.”

The Collected Intel packs in question involve a currency that is bought with real money and can be used to purchase endgame gear, which some saw as breaking through the P2W barrier. Trion is asking for players to submit all feedback to this thread, although we will not stop any of our readers from sharing their thoughts on this move below.

Source: Official forums. Thanks Clowd and Boom!
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Crowe

Wow, the dev team is out of the office this week but will be in next? They always seem to be out doing things instead of in the office…

flyingltj
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flyingltj

The Trion cycle:

Introduce next product. -> Introduce P2W aspects. -> Defend them. -> Pull them down with apology. -> Introduce next product. -> Introduce P2W aspects. -> Defend them. -> Pull them down with apology. -> repeat.

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Alatar

I have been a Rift subscriber (now Patron) since launch day. I have spent more time playing Rift than any other MMORPG other than WoW or DAoC. WoW is still my primary MMO and when I played DAoC back in the day, that was my ONLY MMO. I’m saying that to say this, I have a lot of time invested in Rift and I know it very well.

I have defended their business model because my definition of pay to win is “An item that is required to play the game at its highest level MUST be purchased for cash, or (lesser, but still an issue) an item that contributes to the power of your character can ONLY be purchased for cash.” Rift doesn’t do either of those things. Everything in the Rift store CAN be earned through simply playing the game, and the best in slot items can be acquired without plunking down your credit card.

However, I was very uncomfortable with the Captured Intel crates. I’m not sure why, because you COULD grind the Captured Intel. But just outright selling the in game currency made me a little squeamish. I’m glad they backed off on it.

I understand all of the gamers who declare that a cash shop selling ANYTHING more than cosmetics is pay to win. I don’t agree with them, but that’s why they make different games. If you can’t find one you like and agree with, maybe it’s time to look for a new hobby.

I hear golf is nice. Fresh air and all, you know?

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Crowe

Most folks don’t define pay to win the same as you do. That said, golf can be a very dangerous sport. (I’ve got 36 stitches to prove it) I’d recommend something safer like football.

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Skhull

I hope their losses don’t justify trying to slip this in on their playerbase, Trion deserves to burn.

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Chris Mc

Archeage must be rubbing off on them.

K38FishTacos
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K38FishTacos

I subbed to Rift from launch all the way up to the first month of Storm Legion. I bought whatever in the cash shop (Tiger mount, etc.) because I liked the game so much and was looking forward to how it would develop as an alternative to WoW.

But Storm Legion (for me) brought some serious un-fun grind. It was just not at all as fun as vanilla Rift. So I unsubbed at that point. I’ve gone back several times, but each time couldn’t play for more than a couple of weeks. The last expansion, I found time to kill trash mobs was way too long, bugged main quest turn-ins, etc. That was the last time I went back.

With this latest cash shop attempt, I’m permanently done. RIP Rift.

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Zariarn

I love this game. Good news indeed.

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Bryan Turner

Maybe if they fixed their shitty connection issues they could have more people playing willing to spend money on their game, nope they join the small list of games only shared by LotRO that refuses to connect with a Mobile Hotspot (even Daybreak can make this work FFS).

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Jack Kerras

This is definitely not a ‘them’ thing.

Or, rather, it -is- a them thing inasmuch as they are requiring that people have stable, usable connections in order to get on their game, and folks with bad connections (IE mobile hotspots, satellite Internet, etc.) are not able to stay online because they screw everything up for players with real connections.

That sucks, but man, I do not want people on crappy connections in my games. It wrecks things for -way- more than just the person with the crappy connection, and although I feel for folks who have no other options, it also keeps a lot of Nasty Shit out of the game itself. Banning whole spans of people who don’t keep a stable endpoint is sometimes the only option when a bad apple is using a service that needs little more than a disconnect/reconnect to get a whole new IP address, and that happens on the reg with cellular services of all kinds thanks to changing towers and whatnot.

This sucks for you, and I’m sorry, but if you’re gonna play a game online with people, you should have to use a half-decent connection. The old Verizon 4G hotspot just isn’t gonna cut it, and it makes a security NIGHTMARE on the back end on top of every other problem it brings to the table. It’s not as bad in most MMOs as it is on listen-hosted lobby games (NAT issues with 4G Internet are functionally unsolvable, which isn’t a problem with company-hosted servers), but it is still bad for sure.

It’s… I mean, I know it’s not fair, but it’s equally unfair to let one person with a garbage connection screw up a run for a handful of other people because they can’t stay connected, or because their response rates are so slow (see: satellite) that they are unable to act on incoming mechanics within the crucial time window.

One person playing an online shooter for a long evening with a spotty/800-ping connection makes for potentially hundreds of players’ worth of anger and frustration. It just isn’t good for the game, it presents a performance issue for everyone else who is saddled with a person on a poor connection, and in general I support tempbanning poor connections even though I realize sometimes satellite/4G is the only option.

Shooters are worse, but even a dungeon queue pop with a tank in Australia is just a miserably bad experience, and you bet those queues are gonna pop like a motherfucker, ‘cuz tanks are ALWAYS in demand. So that’s a handful of people for every pop who have to deal with healing a tank through mechanics that have killed them by the time they know it’s started.

It sucks. I’m sorry. But it’s not Trion’s problem, and they should absolutely keep people with bad connections off their servers.

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Bryan Turner

I get what you’re saying, I can see how some areas with crappy cell coverage would run into issues like this, how ever I live in New York State so we’ve got good connection almost every where. Interesting, I’ve never had connection issues with ATT unless I’m using a 3rd Party Tethering App like PDANet, ever since I’ve gotten my Mobile Modem for Home Use I stay connected all the time. As a matter of fact recently I spent a whole night running 5 Man Content as a tank in WoW just a few weeks ago and never DCed once. Sucks for Rift I guess, they sure could have used the $200 I dropped in the past month on GW2.

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Crowe

Rift isn’t really all that great these days. I don’t think it’s worth continuing to bring up your Rift connectivity issues over and over. And definitely not worth your $200.

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Bryan Turner

I hear you man, to me it’s sort of like that one thing you can’t have that scratches at the corners of your mind. Jack Kerras gave me a pretty good explanation and education as to why companies like Rift might avoid Hot Spots.

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thirtymil

I get < 80 ms stable ping through mobile tethering to most MMOs I play (I don't normally use it, but it's there if the broadband breaks), so are Trion blocking specifically by mobile hotspot or by latency? If by mobile then I don't approve of their solution…

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lokoma

the only time they can get any attention is when they do something terrible.
after the crappy way they treated their loyal fans i will never give this company a nether dime

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Chosenxeno .

Rift still matters. Even if you are here to potshot Trion. Rift brings the people in. It’s heartbreaking to see what I still consider a top tier TRADITIONAL MMORPG fall from grace.

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Castagere Shaikura

I agree
Sick of the flack this game gets because of Trion doing dumb things. I have never had to buy something in this game to progress in it. So sick of the people that spend all their time talking about the stuff in the cash shop when you don’t need anything in it to advance in the game. These are the same people that complain about it while buying the stuff they are complaining about.

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Wanda Clamshuckr

Sick of the flack this game gets because of Trion doing dumb things

When TRION stops doing dumb things, then they will get less flack.

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Chosenxeno .

I’m not going to fully support their payment Model but it’s an awesome game. Too bad XIV took it’s 1A spot lol

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Bryan Turner

If they were so top tier then why can’t they afford Engineers at least on the level of Daybreak (I can log in to Everquest 2 with zero problems) that can figure out how to get people with a Mobile Wireless ISP to connect, last time I checked ATT/DirectTV were a major company with tons of customers yet Trion can’t wrap their minds around the concept of a Mobile Hotspot.

How can Trion be a major pillar in the MMO industry if a fading lifeboat like Daybreak can get me to connect to their infrastructure but Trion can’t?

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Jack Kerras

As I said in my big wall of text above, I kinda understand this.

I don’t think it’s a question of can’t.

It makes more sense to me that this is a question of won’t, and should remain so. Especially for F2P games, mobile hotspots are bad goddamn news. Every time I find a mobile-hotspot IP span signing up on a site I’m working on, I ban the whole span on the spot, ‘cuz when I don’t, it’s just a writhing nest of credit-card fraud and a myriad of other sneaky-bullshit flavors.

That’s not even mentioning the performance issue it presents to other players, which is in many cases -very- significant.

I’m an infra guy. I want stuff to work well. Mobile hotspots, satellite Internet, and other ‘alternative’ connection types just don’t work very well, and mobile hotspots in particular come with so much garbage it’s damn near impossible to justify allowing them onto your servers. I don’t when I’m at work, and I don’t think anyone else should either.

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Bryan Turner

Here’s the thing, are there ways to improve my security then, currently I’ve had no issues with CC Fraud or PayPal fraud; perhaps we’re using smart security protocols at home then? Or are the security risks the people that set up their own HotSpots?

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Jack Kerras

You haven’t had issues, but super-disposable IP addresses are bad juju for anyplace with a free element or an automatic, non-admin-checked account creation process.

If you’re talking about home, of course you have no problems.

If you’re talking about being at work and seeing disposable IP spans like this churn out an absolute shit-ton of bogus accounts to farm gold, probe anti-cheat, etc., then we’re on the same page. :)

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thirtymil

Badly setup wi-fi doesn’t work well either, and causes more ping/latency/dropout problems than alternative broadband methods in my experience (the exception being overloaded radio masts in rural Canada…but I digress). I’ve run into far more wi-fi adaptors with bad settings for latency and routers that cannot handle the traffic (Virgin Superhubs for starters) than I have problems with, say, mobile tethering or satellite internet.

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Chosenxeno .

Rift is legit as far as gameplay. I will standby that. I am not in IT so I dunno about the rest. I’m talking about the gameplay.

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Annoyed badger

why do you and people like you come to these threads just to shit on a game? I dont like many games, I just avoid them usually, I really dont get the compulsion to actively seek out threads on a game you dislike just to shit on it.

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Bryan Turner

I was going to write out something long to explain my self but then I realized your attention span can’t handle that, this is going to hurt but I will attempt to think down to your level.

Me like Rift, me think Rift big fun!!!

Rift no let me connect, they only like cable internet, this make me hate Rift.

Rift IT Dept is bad men, this me me angry and sad!

ME think Rift is fun, Trion don’t like my connection, Trion bad men!

IS that simple enough for you to understand?

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Crowe

He’s in pretty frequently to complain about this. Just check past Rift articles and he chimes in with the same gripe. (not saying it’s not valid — it most certainly is. However, it’s repetitive complaining that’s never going to get anyone here to help with.)

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Bryan Turner

Jack Kerras gave me an informed reason why it won’t be fixed, I accept that now and am glad he took the time to educate me.