Star Citizen: Hoverbikes, female character models, and item insurance

    
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Who do you love now? HOVERBIKES. Yes, one of the key bits from this week’s Star Citizen Around the Verse episode focuses on the design and development of hoverbikes. Sorry, “grav-lev vehicles.” The original implementation, CIG says, was actually a bit too easy for the player, a little too detached from the terrain. The new model actually requires the player to react to the terrain underneath as well as monitor the level of thrust to keep on keepin’ on. The episode also covers playable female characters – specifically, the process of mapping and retooling animations to work for the female model, which as the devs note is significantly more complicated than just slapping the male character into girl clothes or porting the female NPCs over and saying boom, you’re playable.

Meanwhile, in a post about the Idris upgrade kit from last month, this week CIG effectively announced an expansion to its insurance system, specifically to cover items, not just ships.

“In the past, insurance was only made available to ship hulls. As we’ve progressed in the development of Star Citizen, we’re getting closer to having a need for a system to insure items as well. This is something that we’re still actively working on, so we don’t have full details to how this system will work just yet, but we’re eager to lock it all down and share that information with you in the future. I do however have an update on the Idris Upgrade Kit. As it currently stands, the kit shows that it has 72 months of insurance, which will be changing and retroactively updated to LTI in the very near future.”

Source: ATV, Spectrum. Thanks, DK!
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Dankey Kang

They oughta offer Star Citizen insurance for the people that paid over ten grand for a ship; y’know, just incase this game never releases and they get left high and dry.

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Fervor Bliss

Really females are so different?

While there are several differences between male and female skeletons on average, all the differences are relative so it is nearly impossible to identify gender from skeletal measurements alone.

https://www.toptenreviews.com/home/articles/the-difference-between-male-and-female-skeletons/

deekay_000
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deekay_000

it’s in the hips. women have a different gait when walking than men, primarily because their hip structure is different. this changes everything about how the skeletal model moves, even outside of simply ambulation.

making identical skeletons for male and female inarguably produces rather poor and uncanny results when viewing the female models in action. it looks unnatural and awkward and frankly lazy.

nothing they said in the video about this is controversial novel or particularly interesting really.

(edited by mod)

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Tamanous

This is correct. There are easily discernible differences in male and female skeletons if an expert has an entire skeleton to inspect. With regards to video games, it is important for accurate movement as the skeletal structure drives the characters movement in most modern games.

A female model cannot move in the same way as a male because the angular physics of each model is different and this takes artists a great deal of time to perfect.

I do tend to see 2 types of games these days when it comes to character models” 1. Those that create a female model and act like it’s massive addition and advancement to the game. 2. Those that created both male and female models and shut the fuck up about it as if it was meant to be anyway.

deekay_000
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deekay_000

yeah any time we hear about some ancient human or human relative remains being found they can tell male from female skeletons.

i think OP needs better sources for his research than “toptenreviews.com”

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Fervor Bliss

“it’s in the hips. idk how often you go outside but women half a different gait when walking than men, primarily because their hip structure is different. this changes everything about how the skeletal model moves, even outside of simply ambulation.”

So you believe you can determine someone’s sex by using just their gait measurements?

True a real expert can use Phenice variables to determine sex. Not a easy thing to do at all. That is why they look at hair and teeth first. (life is not a TV show) Because the differences are so small. If you want to make all women Jessica Rabbit, you do have a point.

https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS12974J.htm

deekay_000
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deekay_000

(edited by mod)

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Fervor Bliss

(edited by mod)

deekay_000
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deekay_000

first you argued that there is no difference at all between female and male skeletons. someone mentioned paleoanthrobiology and you suddenly arguing the opposite of your original argument and position. you know all the things that tamanous and I touched on can be all correct as well as the random science paper you linked?

(edited by mod)

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Fervor Bliss

There is a difference between the male and female bodies.. Not enough to matter. Women come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Watch the sword fight between Arya and Breana

2 women 2 different skeletons. The differences between male and female skeleton are so small you have to be an expert in the field for years and then with a lot of work, you can with a certain amount of success given an unknown skeleton choose the correct sex.

If you were talented enough you could use the original skeleton, no one would know the difference.

deekay_000
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deekay_000

no one said there wasn’t variety amongst women (or men).

i fail to see how any of this backs up your argument that CIG should use the same skeleton “and no one would notice”. they say in the video they noticed in previous iterations so went with this. might explain even why it’s behind schedule and so late eh?

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Fervor Bliss

(edited by mod)

deekay_000
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deekay_000

(edited by mod)

deekay_000
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deekay_000

anyways not that any of this matters to you but here’s a study that is actually relevant to the topic of designing female vs male skeletons in vidya gaemz.

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2636&context=facpub

Discussion
In this study we investigated sex differences in whole body gait kinematics. Our lower extremity
results are consistent with several previous studies, further strengthening findings of specific
pelvis, hip, and ankle kinematic differences. For upper body measures, however, previous
evidence of sex differences comes primarily from qualitative studies and anecdotal observations.
In contrast to several recent empirical studies [6]
, [7]
and
[8]
, our results show clear evidence of
sex differences in torso and arm motion (
Table 2
B and Fig. 1
) that match historical hypotheses.

The combined effects of pelvis, torso, and waist angles in both the frontal and transverse planes
(Fig. 1
) suggest that men and w
omen use different control strategies during gait. Interestingly,
waist angles were remarkably similar between sexes, suggesting a possible coupled control
strategy wherein ideal lumbar or COM kinematics are maintained. This occurred despite sex
differences in pelvis and torso kinematics in both the frontal and transverse planes. In the
transverse plane, both pelvis and torso rotation showed clear sex differences in ROM as well as
in curve shape.

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Fervor Bliss

From your link.

From the introduction:
More recently, however, empirical studies on gait kinematics have found few consistent sex differences, and have not fully supported the above historical observations. Most striking, three
studies have specifically evaluated torso sway sex differences [6], [7] and [8], none finding increased ROM in males. Individual study findings of sex differences in other joints, such as
sagittal plane hip [9] and knee [10] and [11] ROM have also not been substantiated by additional studies (e.g. [7], [10], [12] and [13] and [9], [12], [13] and [14], respectively). Arguably the only
metric showing some consistency across studies is that of pelvic obliquity, where four [13], [15], [16] and [17] out of seven [7], [18] and [19] studies found increased female ROM. The reasons
behind this likely sex difference are also not completely clear, with hypotheses ranging from evolutionary [5] and socio-cultural factors [1] to walking efficiency [17], [20] and [21].

Note in the Demographics the males were .14 meters taller 5.5 inches. and weighed 19 (kg) more. With a higher range of weights (12.2) on the males but since males were 65% of the study, troublesome but not unheard of.

Table 1. Demographics.
Female Male
N 36 55
N military 18 (50%) 34 (62%)
N caucasian 26 (72%) 45 (82%)
Age (yr) 28.4 ± 8.3 30.7 ± 10.6
Height (m) 1.67 ± 0.07 1.81 ± 0.07
Weight (kg) 65.1 ± 11.5 84.1 ± 12.2
BMI (kg/m2) 23.2 ± 3.5 25.7 ± 3.3

Results
Men and women walked at nearly the same mean preferred speed, men taking significantly longer strides, and women moving with a higher cadence (Table 2A). When accounting for body size, non-dimensional walking speed and stride length comparisons were not significant, but notable, with potentially greater mean values in women compared to men.

Please Note “Comparisons were not significant”

(edited by mod)

deekay_000
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deekay_000

please note “When accounting for body size, non-dimensional walking speed and stride length, comparisons were not significant, but notable, with potentially greater mean values in women compared to men.

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Fervor Bliss

So you want to hang your hat on a potentially greater mean value that the author also explained away with:

The reasons behind this likely sex difference are also not completely clear, with hypotheses ranging from evolutionary [5] and socio-cultural factors [1] to walking efficiency [17], [20] and [21].

Not skeleton structure.

deekay_000
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deekay_000

“evolutionary” factors would include biological differences including hip/skeletal structure.

also that is not “explaining (away)” anything. the author is wondering out loud about hypothesis for further future study. while making it clear that the reasons behind the differences between sexes here is unknown.

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Fervor Bliss

Oh, the evolution of a physical trait that wasn’t significant in the first place.

(edited by mod)

deekay_000
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deekay_000

(edited by mod)

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Fervor Bliss

(edited by mod)

deekay_000
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deekay_000

unless they clean up the planet surfaces of randomly placed rocks and near lorville debris, this is going to just be unpleasant.

and to explain what is exciting about the idris news to the rest of us plebs, basically they are talking about stuff like custom load out persistence for ships beyond every client/server crash death and disconnect which is a nice step forward for the core “progression” loop. and allows current players to begin testing the meta game further in ways that currently aren’t possible (for example i’m in the camp that default loadouts re currently superior for a number of reasons ranging from recoup time to overall effort involved)

i don’t really have any interesting videos to share this week, so here’s a buddy’s recetn dogfight hat is pretty intense and scenic at the same time. one of the thing i’m looking forward to with the incoming flight model 2.0 is the UI updates that go with it and show in the UI how much more is going on that is observable by the casual eye looking at vids like these. anyways some ace pilots here folks, take a look

deekay_000
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deekay_000

female characters playable is a frequent question i get and it’s good to see news on it. watching now.

edit interesting enough preview i guess to what to expect in early iterations but as always i am 110% always hoping for so much more than anything they continue to show here. qq

Godnaz
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Godnaz

The flight model change for gravity levitation, atmospheric and space flight are a welcome change.

When traveling to celestial body, coming out of Quantum Travel leaves you too far out in orbit which makes getting to the surface a time consuming procudure at anywhere between 8-12 minutes. Arrival radius to reach the surface should now be reduced to around 3-5 minutes.

Likewise, flying off the surface of a ‘planet’ in a large ship is like swimming to the surface with 4kg tied to your ankles. Sometimes it can take 10mins to break atmosphere. Rebalanced thruster strengths for more momentum in flight will be so nice.

Using a ‘hover bike’ is very fluffy feeling, forgiving and doesn’t feel realistic. You can easily clear rocks, bushes, player’s noggins without feeling the need to have to react. Gravity levitation is an important step to opening the door for more vehicles and uses of the technology.

Lots of other great tweaks but overall the game’s flight mechanics should feel like powerful and responsive, which it really needed.

deekay_000
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deekay_000

the problem with ground vehicles already tho is that the moon/planet surfaces have no real paths between random trash PCG rocks and such that clutter the surfaces of the celestial bodies.

it’s really awful in wheeled vehicles. at the current ground vehicle meta dragon fly (the nox is still broken or at least unreliable afaik) provides a balance in that it traverses dificult (read all) terrain more easily while sacrificing fire power or HR space.

they really need to cut down the clutter of non mineable surface rocks everywhere and trash outside of lorville if they want this to be livable.

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Schlag Sweetleaf

from the archives….

sc whale rider.gif
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Utakata

Lol! <3

Amadahy
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Amadahy

Is there a reason they look like Michael Ironside in Scanners? 🤔

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Roger Melly

LoL my dyslexia must be playing tricks with me . I initially read that as Scammers not “Scanners” .

I wonder why that happened .

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Toy Clown

Hellllooo, Star Citizen! Welcome back to my watch list. I guess it’s soon time to figure out if I need a new computer.

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Roger Melly

Unless you are intending to buy a new computer to play other games now is as good a time as any but I would hold off for another few years if you are buying one just to play Star Citizen . Maybe sometime between 2022-2025 would be the time to start looking at upgrading .

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Braveliltoasterx

Only problem is that when 2022-2025 come around star citizen will need to update their graphics engine and that will put them back another decade and then the cycle continues just like vapor…

deekay_000
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deekay_000

graphics tech expandability is not really CE/LYs dificulty.

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Toy Clown

My current computer is still doing well. It’s 5 yrs old and I’ve just been upgrading it, upgrading it and it’s just not starting to slide a little, but still runs everything I play on high settings. A new computer is will probably happen in 1-2 years! By then I’m sure I’ll be able to have a better feel of the direction Star Citizen is going.

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Dividion

Wait another year and a half. Squadron 42 should release for the holidays next year. If you get something then that runs the single-player campaign exceptionally, it should run the multiplayer mode pretty well also. You’ll probably be able to snag a Ryzen 3850X for $3-400 during a Black Friday sale. That should give you a bit of future-proofing.

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Gingen | Guildmarm

Next year holiday? Are we already in the year 2035?

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Dividion

Note I said Squadron 42. (Of course, it’ll only be chapter one of Squadron 42, but it’s still supposed to hit beta/release next year. If they can get some holiday sales, it may keep the company afloat long enough to release the Star Citizen PU… many years from now.)

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Roger Melly

Maybe she was responding to Squadron 42 ?

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Toy Clown

Sounds good to me!

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Roger Melly

Holidays next year ? they were saying that last year and the year before .

Lets just say it will happen when it happens . If it happens at all .

deekay_000
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deekay_000

if you have a 9 series nvidia card or later and an intel core i cpu with 4 digits in teh model number you should be good atm.

but right now i am gonna be frank the 3.4.2 is a bit messy relative to other recentish patches. it’s a bit tough to play even for aseason sc player.

i’m hoping (and i have very little reason to believe there will be) for a 3.4.3 hotfix that’s not amazing but fixes some of the rougher gameplay blokcers i’ve seen and maybe the crashes too (which they do do invisible hotfixes on)

it’s ashame cuz the absolute worst things about .2 were the canopy thing and teh infinite slotted gear bugs lol. and the latter surprisingly didn’t see as much as i’d expect.

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Toy Clown

Thanks for the info!

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Joe Blobers

You can download SC during free weekend to test your rig. Facts is that 3.4 double or triple fps for many, including those with 8Gb of memory.
My 5 years old GTX780 and I5 x4 cores do provide smooth (not perfect) gameplay experience.
No need to upgrade for now. Squadron 42 Beta being planned end of Q2 2020 (so in a year and half), that will give clear information about what configuration will be required at minimum.

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Alex Willis
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Dividion

I thought it was a good episode. The first-person view from the hover bike looked way too jumpy in my opinion. It doesn’t have to be smooth, but it needs to be smooth-er. Maybe that spacebar option they mentioned helps. The female models are also looking good. About time.