NCsoft Q1: Growth for Guild Wars 2, further deflation for WildStar

NCsoft‘s first quarter financial report is out, and… you know, let’s start with the good news. Guild Wars 2 is making the company more money, fueled by all of that talk about an expansion pack, so that’s doing quite well. Blade & Soul is also apparently doing fairly well with its addition of a Taiwanese version, at that.

And… yes, that was it for the good news. The company’s net income is down 3% year-on-year, with an expectation that the company will rebound in the next quarter but grim numbers for now. It doesn’t help that WildStar‘s numbers continue to fall, dropping 50% to a bit over $2 million in sales. This continues the downward trend established with the last financial report from the publisher. You can check out the entire financial report on the official corporate site.

Source: NCsoft Corporate; thanks to yeahreally and Clay for the tip!
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529 Comments on "NCsoft Q1: Growth for Guild Wars 2, further deflation for WildStar"

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ArchDevi
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ArchDevi

Sabii I dont think reading is hard, but failing as hard as you just did is certainly migthy difficult

DoctorOverlord
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DoctorOverlord

TitianHero AvatarOP Xomon Very true.  It’s baffling how Wildstat’s devs refused to learn the lessons of the past and see how the MMO market had evolved.  Their clueless conviction that absurd raiding woudl havea  place in the future of the MMO genre after it had finally dragged itself out of that mire was just ridiculous.

Red Alert
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Red Alert

When it comes to Carbine and their attitude with Wildstar i can’t help but bring Edguy’s lyrics to mind:
“Vain glory be my wicked guide”.
Unfortunately they learned the hard way the lesson everyone should know by now: Hardcore players are NOT the majority, on the contrary they are a very small part of the community. They are just (a lot)more vocal.
Too bad, because this had a very interesting concept as a game. It just that the studio’s pride and stubborness is driving this game straight to the mud.

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

Nanulak I’m an older folk and loved the twitch playstyle. I just thought endgame was designed to pretty much tell any non-raider to get bent.

AdeptusEnginus
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AdeptusEnginus

Radfist AdeptusEnginus wjowski But it DIDN’T succeed in the east. It flopped in the east, that’s the point. The brand name was not enough to save it, much less the “IP” similarities. that come with it. Your statement is contradicted by the actual facts of what happened. XIV was an across-the-board failure in every possible way before A Realm Reborn. By your logic 1.0 should have been fantastically received in the east regardless of how bad it was, which is not what happened. The fact that A Realm Reborn even exists is proof of that.

The IP helps, it’s a boon, but it is not a guarantee and it can not save a game that is just not good. This was as true for SWTOR and XIV in the past few years as it was for WAR back in 2008.

Lights_andMusic
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Lights_andMusic

Bannex19

You: “The death of Wildstar will signal the end of large developers investing in a feature rich mmo.” (actual quote, not paraphrasing)

Me:  I believe your opinion is ignorant and uninformed.  I believe this because there are several examples of “large developers investing in a feature rich mmo” recently, and with great success.  Some examples of those MMOs include, but are not limited to: FFXIV, GW2, and TSW. 

What evidence do you present to support your side of the argument?

Radfist
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Radfist

sray155 Radfist  I do find it odd how cheap CREDD is to be honest. It is barely a few hours worth of grinding. The conversion of GW2 RL money to in game money on the other hand is insane for the amount of grinding you need to do.

Radfist
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Radfist

LeoKing Radfist  Exactly, when it is bought. ie: People paid Carbine for it before this quarter.  Now they are getting no subs because people are dipping into this store of CREDD.  In other words, sub numbers from earlier were probably inflated due to CREDD, and a massive drop specifically in this quarter is fairly unlikely.

Radfist
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Radfist

ihatevnecks Radfist  Exactly, Sray gets it. The profit from the CREDD showed up in earlier quarters, when people actually purchased them.  Most players I know don’t subscribe themselves, because it is so easy to buy CREDD.  Obviously CREDD was inflating how popular the game was to begin with.

Radfist
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Radfist

AdeptusEnginus Radfist wjowski  The IP gets players in the door. Wildstar had less players to lose. SWTOR got heaps of players to purchase the game and try it. Second only to WoW.  The Final Fantasy name means it would have always been successful in the east, regardless of how it was received over here.

Ket_Viliano
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Ket_Viliano

sray155 Grimmtooth  Where do you get your numbers from? And, do you work in the industry?

wjowski
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wjowski

Radfist wjowski 
An IP that hasn’t made them money in years.

CorpseLotus
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CorpseLotus

Xomon Yep. Existing with zero restrictions if you bought the game before.

TitianHero
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TitianHero

Madda of course there will be more numbers. and they will all speak brazilian. enjoy your new community members!

TitianHero
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TitianHero

AdeptusEnginus Madda fran is a life long drama queen, don’t lose any sleep. He will be back before you know it.

TitianHero
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TitianHero

Bannex19 learn korean, enjoy exciting new mmorpgs.

TitianHero
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TitianHero

AvatarOP Xomon the thing is, even during the hey day of epic 40 hour 100 man raids, not a single fucking person liked attunment and the developers should have known better. you can still have hardcore raids without wasting everyone’s time and splitting the player base with pointless bullshit.

Nanulak
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Nanulak

Main Wildstar problem…older folk don’t like the twitch playstyle and the younger fold who like twitch game play do not like to pay to play.

RonSterling
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RonSterling

Evade2015 RonSterling “I jumped into the game at launch…”
Just like I said, I was there at launch.  I don’t really care what the game is like today, MMOs have a finite time to prove to people that the game is worth their time.  Wildstar failed.  They’ve lost my business forever.  They had one job.  They didn’t do it.

hyjaxx
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hyjaxx

I totally agree there should have been other things to do..100% agree.
Or even have easy mode versions of the content that doesn’t count towards attunement and doesn’t give the same quality rewards. That way people who just want to see the content can do so.
And by the way..”struts around”…i am pretty awesome! 8P

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

hyjaxx See, that attitude is exactly why wildstar failed. Assuming you’re some elite gem of a player and anyone who doesnt want what you want isan unskilled prole who needs to stop failing.

You arent. And it wasnt just the attunements that killed it. What killed it is the stubborn isistence on not providing anything for other players. If you want steep attunements and hard-as-nails raids? fine. But if you provide NOTHING for people who dont like raiding, then why the hell should we stick around and subsidize the game for your enjoyment, particularly when you’re calling us all awful for not liking what you like and playing at your level?

You think league of legends would survive if it only catered to pro players?

Tridus
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Tridus

Some people actually are better at these games than others,module to things like reflexes, system knowledge, and just plain more time to practice. If you set the bar such that most of your players can’t do the content, you will have very few players.
I guess you got what you wanted, eh? Unfortunately it’s also a path to bankruptcy for Carbine. This exact insulting attitude towards other paying customers (the majority of thrm, in fact) is reason #1 for Wildstars failure.
(Also, attunement is just a filler wall. It serves no purpose except as a time sink to block people from getting to the content, and to make the lives of raid organizers everywhere harder. If the content is hard, that acts as your difficulty barrier, not a grind beforehand.)

joshua12jd
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joshua12jd

RicharddeLeonIII AvatarOP jixjax ESO was bad as a sub game. As a B2P game it really is a good game.

ESO is really geared to people who like to craft, quest and get into the lore. I think most of the people who dont like ESO were moreso trying to play it like a traditional MMO and get to the top and do some raids or something like that.
ESO is a “take your time, enjoy the journey” type of game. Perfect for B2P audience

hyjaxx
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hyjaxx

See…i loved wildstar because of the attunement requirements and steep learning curve in adventures and dungeons..it stopped the plague of crap players riding coat tails. Sadly when all the melon heads left there were very few core guilds left. Although i do agree the starting raids were a lil stout.
sadly the mmo community now doesn’t want to learn how to jump over the bar…they would rather gripe till the bar falls down , then trudge over it.

joshua12jd
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joshua12jd

AvatarOP TraylorAlan I wouldnt put words in his mouth there. I sub to games, but Wildstar was a game that I was not willing to sub to long term.

It isnt a thing of we aren’t prone to subbing for games, but as I have gotten older and I now have kids, I am more cautious with my money. I dont throw $15 at companies anymore unless their game is engaging. Alot of those things you mentioned above are nice, but there still has to be something more than just “this stuff is in the game”

Love wildstar and the devs, have nothing against them, but if they cant keep the playerbase to make those things fun and playing, I typically wont pay for a game that I see is dying on the horizon.

Heck I even stayed subbed to Archeage for a while, until a couple months I realized the playerbase was shrinking, so instead of waiting around for the company to fix things, consumers read the writing on the wall and will invest their money in something more promising or something different that will bring them joy.

joshua12jd
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joshua12jd

Evade2015 RonSterling I came back to the game since release. And I was max level, its still not enough to bring past players back sadly. I tried, I liked the new guild and the people but even trying it this year. It just didnt have enough to keep me. 

Lots of stuff in the game, just nothing to really “hook”  anyone to coming back.

Bannex19
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Bannex19

Xomon preexisting

Evade2015
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Evade2015

RonSterling The game today is nothing as you describe. There is no hardcore grind, I haven’t seen a bot in game since last August, the largest raid is 20 man and the game has a crap ton of casual content.

But who cares, keep spreading the hate

Xomon
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Xomon

Does that 10 day trial for preexisting accounts?

RyanMahaffey
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RyanMahaffey

Lights_andMusic AvatarOP Madda So WoD is amazing even though it has 7.1 million subs?

Numbers don’t judge quality.

Bannex19
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Bannex19

AdeptusEnginus Midgetsnowman Bannex19 Smedly says more ridiculous shit everyday and all of his games are absolute crap.  He still fields half the amount of comments that this game does.

Bannex19
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Bannex19

Lights_andMusic Bannex19 If I consistenty ran into ppl like you on the internet I would gladly stay away as well.

Bannex19
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Bannex19

Midgetsnowman Bannex19 Lights_andMusic I THINK wildstar is the last great AAA mmo.  I have never once disguised my opinions as facts.  I also point you to the article because many AAA developers make all different types of games,  If AAA video games are already in trouble then why do you think wildstar wont have an effect.
Its not about the size of the the game in your eyes its about the size of the development cost.  Sure Wildstar may seem like small potatoes that failed 6 months ago but to NCSOFT its is millions of won lost.  To other developers it is much safer to make a mobile f2p “mmo” than to invest in something like…TITAN????
Still hate me?

Bannex19
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Bannex19

Midgetsnowman Bannex19 Lights_andMusic um…exactly?

Bannex19
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Bannex19

Midgetsnowman Bannex19 make sure you cover every inch with troll repellent

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

Bannex19 Oh look, strawmans!

Bannex19
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Bannex19

So lets review what just happened here (forgive me for paraphrasing):
Bannex19:  I like Wildstar and because of the already shakey ground (supported by facts) that AAA development is on, I THINK that this wildstar failure will scare many other future MMO developers from investing in feature rich games without monetizing the hell out of it.
Lights and Music, Midgetsnowman and some other guys:  RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE YOU’RE WRONGAH!  FFXIV = success!  You should be belittled for your thoughts and opinions!!!!!  WHAT FACTS DO YOU HAVE?  B2P is a failure, YOU ARE A TROLL AND MEAN!
Bannex19: Scuse me?
Lights and Music, Midgetsnowman, some other guys:  Wildstar failed!  FFXIV is better.
Bannex19: But I don’t like FFXIV and I dont see many feature rich AAA MMO’s being developed.
Lights and Music, Midgetsnowman, some other guys:  YOU ARE WRONG!  YOU HATE CASUALS!  YOU ARE EVERYTHING WRONG WITH WILDSTAR
Bannex19: But I just started playing a month ago and I like the game, why are you here again?

Cirventhor
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Cirventhor

I’d say it’s just as much the fault of the early game. Linear snooze-fest questgrind in a very odd world/setting. It’s easy to point fingers at the endgame design, but I’d bet by far most of the lost people were out long before raiding became relevant. Wildstar was just a bad game. Period. And as such it’s not the best game to draw conclusions from when it comes to endgame design (even if the attunement system was crazy). I don’t think even the 1% hardcore raiders liked the game.

AdeptusEnginus
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AdeptusEnginus

AvatarOP Midgetsnowman skoryy AdeptusEnginus Lights_andMusic Not really, most of the community didn’t give a crap about raiding, which was the problem. Raiding is a stark minority, even us raiders recognize that in this day and age, but Wildstar was built to cater specifically to them, and then made the process so tedious that even they were not willing to slog through it.
You asked specific questions about MY experience, I was relaying MY experience, which was at LAUNCH when everything was utterly broken and the majority of the playerbase left. The “Exodus” as you called it, happened around the time I quit; in fact, I think I was one of the “first wave” to leave. Over the following weeks all but one of the friends I made in Wildstar had followed in my example, and one of them was our heavy hardcore raid organizer. I don’t care how much better the game is now, nor am I denying that it is better. The point is that the reason it failed is largely in part the problems I stated, and from your responses I get the impression you were not with the game in beta and at launch like people like me were. If you were, you would not be so quick to defend the state the game was in then. Nobody sane would.

Wildstar was never “the most hardcore game”, it was “the most tedious game structure” with some really fun and challenging dungeon encounters. I wasn’t someone who got carried, I was one of the ones doing the carrying. Before I quit I had already tanked for runs with about 3 or 4 other people through gold in Stormtalon and Kel Voreth, and was about to start trying to help people through Skullcano when the burnout hit me like a punch to the gut. The continual repetition combined with the tedium of having to run people through the tedious content (gold adventures) for gear, only to discover that said gear was inferior to crafted gear, was too taxing for even the biggest lovers of challenge to wade through to get to the good stuff. Trying to defend that is like saying “well 80 hours in the game gets good”. No, the game should be good now. I and most people will not play 80 hours to find a good game when I can play a different game that will be good from the start. If those problems are fixed now? That’s fantastic, I’m happy for anyone still playing that the game is finally in the state it should have been in when it launched, but for those of us who had to deal with the problems it had at launch, we have largely moved on to other games, and saying “OH THE PROBLEMS ARE GONE NOW!” isn’t going to make most people drop what they’re doing at try it again. That is exactly why Wildstar is failing: It fucked up the first impression, and you only get one chance at those. It will take something massive to get people to try it again, and the business model barrier is not helping that.
You asked what I would change to make it more appealing to repeat content? SImple: do it like FFXIV. FFXIV encourages endgame players to repeat content from all other facets of the game, via vanity drops like minipets, gear for alts, low level gear earned still being redeemable for Grand Company Seals, Low level gears having unique appearances to them and thus being good for Glamour (visual transmutation) and a Daily Roulette for Low, High and “Current” level content that awards the end game currency, Tomestones, for completion in large amounts. Where Wildstar not only doesn’t reward you, but the difficulty makes it extra annoying to have to do the content with new, undergeared players, XIV makes people cheer when they discover a new player is in the party or raid, because everyone gets a big bonus for finishing the content if there is player present who has never completed it before.

XIV was a breeze to break into for an old-school hardcore raider like me because it makes it all accessible. Wildstar made a point to go as inaccessible as possible, and it bit them hard on the ass. Even if they’ve fixed that, they still won’t be living it down for some time, especially since most of the hardcore crowd that touted Wildstar as the second coming largely returned to WoW when Warlords of Draenor dropped, and by accounts of friends still playing that, the highest-end content there is on par difficulty wise with what Wildstar was offering.

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

Bannex19 Lights_andMusic and? so did wildstar,

it failed over 6-8 months ago. Its been circling the drain ever since. With no sign of recovery outside fever dreams/

Bannex19
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Bannex19

Lights_andMusic Bannex19 take ffxiv and all f2p stuff off your list pls.

sray155
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sray155

LeoKing Very interesting.

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

Madda Midgetsnowman LeoKing

Dont ehh me!

Stupid chua D:

Respect yer cassian betters!

Madda
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Madda

Midgetsnowman LeoKing Ehhhhh…

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

LeoKing

Given the licenses..very much looks like Free or Buy to play is practically confirmed now.

Wildstar might just survive. :D

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

Lights_andMusic Bannex19 theres also the upcoming warhammer 40k MMOFPS, or the fact AAA MMOs like FF14, Neverwinter, DDO, and TSW are still pumping out content every few month.s

Lights_andMusic
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Lights_andMusic

Bannex19 Lights_andMusic

Yeah man, you’re totally right about people not investing in AAA mmos:

GW2 (2011, expansion this year) FFXIV (2013)  TSW (2012) Neverwinter (2013) Archeage (2013) WIldstar (2014) Skyforge (upcoming)   

Are you even serious with this post ?  Do you have access to google?  Can you complete a basic fact-check before you post ?

CorpseLotus
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CorpseLotus

Wildstar has a lot of potential, and it’s a lot better now than release for sure. That said, if they don’t do something and fast, it’s going to die. Everyone I played with still has a bad taste in their mouths from release, and I wasn’t even going to come back until I realized they had a 10 day trial from reddit of all places. I would be fine with f2p and maybe playing at max level if they had more content for people who already raid in other games. I would absolutely love to raid in wildstar, but I don’t have time to do insane amounts of crap just to step into the instance. Attunements are fine to an extent, but it isn’t fun or compelling gameplay.

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

Bannex19 Midgetsnowman Lights_andMusic

You realize that post is about the general state of AAA gaming in general, not specifically MMOs, and the state of AAA games other than MMOs is a entirely different oyster with different demographics and sales targets at play right?

LeoKing
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LeoKing

OHHHHHHH SHEEEET. ITS POSSIBLY HAPPENING…WILDSTAR GOING TO STEAM

https://steamdb.info/sub/68224/

wpDiscuz