Raph Koster explains Star Wars Galaxies’ TEF PvP system

    
67
No, saying that you don't care is not actually an answer.

A long time ago on a website far, far away, we were having a discussion about modern MMOs and their inability to make sandboxes more than thinly disguised FFA gankfests. I suggested that devs riff on Star Wars Galaxies and its early TEF (temporary enemy flagging) system as a way to incorporate optional FFA PvP into a PvE sandbox. As it turns out, the system was incredibly complex from a design and implementation standpoint, and it also assumed a certain amount of player competency if PvP avoidance was desired.

Raph Koster, the designer of SWG’s original TEF system, has posted a lengthy blog entry that outlines all of the challenges inherent in the system from both a developer and a player perspective. It’s a pretty fascinating read whether you’re a fan of SWG or one of those PvE players who would love to play a sandbox MMO but for the incessant Lord of the Flies vibe.

Koster says that the TEF was far from perfect, in part because of the way it allowed players to grief those who didn’t learn the mechanics. “For the cautious and savvy player, [knowing how the flagging worked] wasn’t that big a deal. But cautious and savvy players aren’t at risk of subscription cancellation. They are already bought in. It’s less sophisticated players you need to worry about, and who will make the mistake, and get burned by it and quit.”

[Source: Koster’s blog]

Check out our past posts on Koster’s SWG restrospectives:

newest oldest most liked
Subscribe to:
Cosmic Cleric
Guest
Cosmic Cleric

kalex716 Cosmic Cleric Damonvile LordOfBread Well, I don’t think anyone can invent a game with no conflict of any kind, even if the conflict is to line up squares in a row, etc.
My point was that I never had to attack, or be attacked, by another player, which is what my definition of PvP is, Player vs. Player (or, if you’re being ganked, Player vs. Pinata :p ).  Actual combat vs. other players (not AIs).

I definitely got involved in the story line, not arguing that at all, but I never had to fight another player.  That’s golden in my book, wish more games were like that.  Actually, even moreso for SWG for those who enjoyed PvP, it catered to both.
It seems that your definition of PvP is different than mine.  If I’m healing a player in my hospital, with no enemy units around and me not having to worry about being attacked, isn’t PvP in my book.  /shrug

kalex716
Guest
kalex716

Cosmic Cleric kalex716 Damonvile LordOfBread Thats a great story. You do realize its rather contrary to your final point right?

If Jedi’s and Bounty hunters had no in game conflict driving that drama, you would have never played a part in it. You’d have no story you could tell to this day. And again, just because you never raised a blaster in the conflict itself, doesn’t make you innocent at all. You got involved. You chose to aid the Jedi. That makes you a part of the player versus player interaction whether you liked it or not.

raphkoster
Guest
raphkoster

melissamcdon Cosmic Cleric adamph1974 There are hardly any MMOs which have 900,000 people in one world. :) Really, you only need to care about the number in a given shard or server. A few thousand is what UO managed when MMOs were born…

Ah, for the days when 250 counted… ;)

Mansemat
Guest
Mansemat

potaco I’ve never been arguing against this fact. I don’t dispute that. There is a an irony to all this as my words are taken into such context of connotation without understanding and as such I’m being blasted for it. Which is fine. I’m not the best at forming my words on paper or screen in this matter to properly get my point across. This all stemmed from a poor choice of words rather than a lack of understanding in what they meant. My choice in words were to support my original argument that I didn’t agree with calling these players less sophisticated which I thought was rather insulting to them. It had nothing to do with taking it literally at its face value but more with being respectful of the player in choice of words. Thanks for the response.

Cosmic Cleric
Guest
Cosmic Cleric

adamph1974 Cosmic Cleric melissamcdon I’ll let the facts/numbers speak for me …

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/content.php?r=528-04-12-2015-Weekly-Update
Basilisk
Status: Online
Population: 989
Highest Population: 993
Maximum Capacity: 3000
Uptime: 8hrs 21min 34sec
Last updated 57sec

adamph1974
Guest
adamph1974

Cosmic Cleric melissamcdon adamph1974 “I must be allowed to speak”…..”He must be allowed to speak.” You fool, Cosmic is using an old Jedi Mind Trick….”

adamph1974
Guest
adamph1974

Cosmic Cleric melissamcdon adamph1974 Jesus man, talk about drinking the blue milk. :P

Cosmic Cleric
Guest
Cosmic Cleric

melissamcdon Cosmic Cleric adamph1974 At 11am, 900, for a free MMO that you need the original discs to play on, is something of an achievement in its own right.  During the evenings, there are closer to 1800-2000 players online at once.
And its not a matter of enthusiasm, I just hate it when people spout out wrong b.s.  I feel the need to “correct the record” sort to speak.  Its not fanboism, or ‘enthusiasm’, its just being truthful and factual.

melissamcdon
Guest
melissamcdon

Cosmic Cleric adamph1974 melissamcdon I appreciate your enthusiasm and I frankly wanted it to succeed.   But 900 people in a game isn’t an MMO, it’s not sufficient population to feel ‘massive’, it needs 100 times that population to feel massive.

Cosmic Cleric
Guest
Cosmic Cleric

adamph1974 Cosmic Cleric melissamcdon No screenshot, I included the text from the link in my post directly (above)(current population was at 989 @ 11am).  Am I’m relaxed (a.k.a. ‘chill’).  /shrug