Star Citizen’s Chris Roberts says the game’s economy simulation tech is still a ways off

10 minus 9 for the Chairman

    
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Star Citizen’s Chris Roberts says the game’s economy simulation tech is still a ways off

Star Citizen’s Chris Roberts, bleary-eyed and exhausted from the self-reported “running a company of 630 people spread around the globe, while directing two projects [which] already takes way more than 40 hours a week,” thought to himself, “What if I open an AMA but I only answer one question that others vote up and as long as that question follows certain guidelines?” And so he did.

Roberts opened himself up to fans for one player question (and one only) as upvoted by the community, so long as the question didn’t ask about timelines, have multiple questions about different topics, and focused on existing systems. The “winning” answer was one about the game’s Quantum system, which readers will recall is the economic simulation system that will be used to power supply, demand, resources, and in-universe NPC needs; the tech was unveiled at last year’s CitizenCon.

As for that answer, Roberts stated that the devs are further fleshing out Quanta behaviors and linking the system to services in order to drive things players are doing in the PU alpha. The goal (not promise, Roberts hastens to point out) is to have elements of the system come online towards the back end of next year.

source: official forums, thanks to Würger for the tip!

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mysecretid

It’s gotten to the point where I no longer follow Star Citizen news in any serious fashion. All the sturm und drang it brings with it just makes me tired.

Once a year or so, I peek in on the alpha, and my ship purchased back in the day.

As I’ve said before, I do fully expect that a game called Star Citizen will release some day — if only to avoid high-order legal entanglements — but what that game will look like, and what its gameplay might involve, and when it might arrive, I genuinely have no idea any more.

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Sean Barfoot

It’s very normal to be approaching year 9 of development and still not have any of the core technology that makes even the basic idea of your game viable.

See what you do is, design thousands of high quality art assets (many for sale), implement ‘tier 0’ implementations of a tiny handful of promised features, then start thinking about how you make your 50 player Crisis mod into an MMO.

Now all they have to do is figure out how to make their NPCs so realistic you can’t tell them from humans, implement the rest of the promised features, revise all ‘tier 0’ features to a shippable standard, then create an MMO that can house hundreds of thousands of people at once, then design and complete the other 99 star systems and the game is done.

Anyone who says this isn’t how games are made obviously doesn’t understand game development as well as Reddit denizens.

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Joe Blobers

Your prose is punctuated with false and twisted information.

8 years since end of kickstarter, starting from scratch with no studios, 12 guys, 6M$, no heavily modified game engine, no pipelines.

You missed the ‘M’ of many core tech being in games or currently under implementation in game engine (icache, physical damage), not any.

Next let’s pretend many thousands of high-quality art assets are for sale, while it is fundamentally false, hundreds at best…. Totally ignoring (on purposes) they are available with in game credits.

They do not start to think about 50 players in an MMO…. This is available since years. Server Meshing is the natural next step after you have already implemented others core techs as they all somehow impact server and client.

Having NPCs so realistic you can’t tell them from humans is not even a stretch goal. The goal is to have several levels of AI’s from trainee to Ace and Quanta server simulating economy impacted by NPC’s and players.

Create an MMO that can house hundreds of thousands of people at once is achievable with Server Meshing. In no case it is a goal to be achieve before SQ42 and that don’t stop SC to be fun. Achieving a few thousands players per systems + 90% more NPC’s is already good enough to make the game as a viable MMO as good as any MMO around.

On top of not understanding game development, using so much false and twisted arguments obviously demonstrate uneducated individual about specific topics can’t do much than a parody of truth :)

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Sean Barfoot

Your English comprehension is as bad as your writing. It’s honestly indistinguishable from a bot. That’s why I don’t normally engage with you.

The game was in development in 2011. Pre production counts. And Citizens sure as shit count it when taking about how long other games took, in order to make this development time seem normal.

Many means a lot of, not all. So yes many of these assets have been and are for sale. Yes you’ve theoretically been able to earn them on game for a little while now, but their persistence is so fucked you’ll lose all your ships every few weeks to months anyway, as well as most credits.

Chris Roberts previously said they want hyper realistic NPCs indistinguishable from humans. But I wouldn’t blame even you for not being able to keep on top of the insane shit that has been promised or suggested at various points by this man.

I said they have fifty players now. Again your comprehension is poor.

The rest of your points are just gibberish or conjecture.

I will now go back to my rule of never engaging you.

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Joe Blobers

We know about 2011 development… make a prototype for private investors and some kickstarter campaign videos. Let’s pretend it account as current +500 devs, heavily modified engine and pipelines… not even knowing whether kickstarter would be successful in 2011.

Publishers do make copy/paste of games from sequel and unlimited resources at day one… still they need +10 years to make Diablo 3, several years to make Anthem so good it have to be removed from gamer market… while SC Alpha is played daily by 30K individual.

Your English is better but throwing false information does not make it any better for random readers :)…. Your statement is false. They don’t have thousands of assets to sell, a vast proportion (roughly +90%) of purchasable assets can be achieve in game and no you do not lose them for ever. Ships that were “lost” over months due to a bug have all been returned to backers. Some getting back for more than 10 millions credits of ships.

Persistence is improving. If you can’t stand the reality of Alpha, just don’t join and wait for beta or release. Many never join any type of Alpha so this is not an issue.

CR talked about having as best as possible NPC’s… which creator would like crappy ones seriously. Again, this is not a stretch goal.

I know you said 50 players now as you talked about Crytek engine. I provide complementary information to explain what is the goal.

Go back to any rule you want, that won’t stop me to reply :)

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Nosy Gamer

Your answer brings up an interesting question. Is CIG going to do a server wipe before Star Citizen is released? If so, that means everything will be deleted except for the ships, equipment, and credits purchased with real world money. If so, it’s a little misleading to say you can earn everything purchasable with in-game credits. You just get the temporary use of them until the game launches.

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Joe Blobers

CIG do not plan to make a full server wipe but partial wipe should exploit or bugs require one.
Even if they do wipe everything earned in game, all gain will be possible again and this time not temporarily.

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Fluke Lsx

See my statement above.

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Fluke Lsx

Yes there will be a full wipe for beta.

Yes ALL SHIPS CAN BE ACQUIRED IN GAME FOR IN GAME CURRENCY. Except for stupid uber rare ships like the Bengal Carrier which no one can own.

I’m not about to let people spread misinformation about what is true and what isn’t.

And NO it is far from misleading they have been clear about this since day one.

Its easy to sit on the outside and be ignorant of its development and say anything you want, but it doesn’t make it any more of a true statement.

As far as development time: It was not started until late 2013. So it has only been in development for just over 6 years.

Average game development time is almost 9 years. And the longest game development time is 15 years currently.

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mike foster

man i need a google alert for mop star citizen posts

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dsmart

“We actually have a full universe simulation […] actually really it runs on one server and it you know simulates about 20 million AI agents and it simulates the AI agents in a very sort of high level manner […] it’s sort of simulating it more in the here’s the jobs, missions, here’s a market demand, here’s the things are happening okay yeah you’ve taken a mission to take these goods from planet a to Planet B all right” – Chris Roberts, 2015 @ 7:46

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Tee Parsley

Roberts and his continual blather leads to a fertile field for mining of hyperbolic bloviation. I pity the persons who have to go through all that BS to pull out the incriminating parts.

flatline4400
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flatline4400

I mean… when I’m on Team Derek, this is obviously 2020…

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Joe Blobers

We knew this video. It proves some of the future core mandatory tech was tested back in 2015 to ensure what several millions of NPC’s can generate in terms of computing power using a single server.

Nice to see a company testing limits of essential features while in alpha, because words have a meaning: “it simulates the AI agents in a very sort of high level manner“.
Let’s ignore latest CR wording explaining on Spectrum what have been done in details and what is coming. It totally articulate with what have been said back in 2015, I.E. integrate in 2020/21 what was a high level prototype in current playable alpha game code with AI’s and players.

The fun with time machine is that it is also working for others prediction of sure thing to happen, as per DS himself:
– 30th march 2016: Within the next few week everything not SQ42 related will be shut down.
– Gamescom 2016: seamless transitions from landing zones to space are now just loading screens

Lol

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Simon Cox

He said it was functioning in 2015 but its not functioning 5 years later, they are just starting to work on it with elements coming online towards the end of next year. You can’t spin that in a positive light at all. He clearly blatantly lied or they wasted time developing something that wasn’t fit for purpose but they sold to backers as being fit for purpose.

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Joe Blobers

No. A high level prototype was working in 2015 with not much more details than that. As usual you read whatever match your negative attitude about anything SC related :)

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Khrome

It’s been 5 years. 5 years. 5 years.

Do i need to repeat myself?

What kind of shitty developer manages to spend 5 years on a single game feature *after* they had a prototype up and running and still doesn’t have it finished or even fleshed out?

For that matter, what happened to the citizencon demo from last year? That was working. Did they accidentally delete everything? Again?

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Simon Cox

There is indeed a world of difference between how you read CR’s words and I do. I’m curious where you get the impression that it was a prototype though. CR’s own words were “we have a full universe simulation” and he says nothing about it being a prototype.
Furthermore, if you listen to the talk they game last year where discussing it, it sounded like they were just making the prototype… so if they just started the prototype in 2019, what were they talking about in 2015? Its just more guff and fluff from CIG in my opinion. They lie to keep the funding going, because they knew then and they know now, if funding stops, the game doesn’t get delivered, not even in MVP form.
It is you who makes things up to suit your point of view, not those who quote CR verbatim.

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dsmart

He lied. Simple. Just like all the other times. It’s not hard to fathom if you already keep track of the pattern.

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Joe Blobers

Sure DS and Simon deflection extracting only what match his goal: ” a full universe”…. out of context and call it ‘verbatim’ :)

Even a first year junior high school student know what “high level manner means… and the two lines of time machine are just ten percent of the documented lies or gross obfuscation you throw just in 2015/2016.

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Fluke Lsx

Right, because you NEVER lie do you Dick Spasm?

Which is what we call you on the SC forums.

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Mathew Jones

where’s your proof smart arse? put your proof where your moth is.
dereks lies
1.Gamescom 2016: seamless transitions from landing zones to space are now just loading screens
2.30th march 2016: Within the next few week everything not SQ42 related will be shut down.
3. Crytek will basically own ALL OF IT, after CIG/RSI are forced into bankruptcy. what a huge lie your statement derek smart
4.I have no doubt in my mind that Ortwin Freyermuth is well on his way to being disbarred after this fiasco is exposed.
5. As has been reported, it’s absolutely catastrophic for RSI/CIG. another lie
6.JAN 19, 2018 I am predicting that today will be an apocalyptic day of reckoning in Crytek v CIG, with RSI/CIG being on the receiving end.
maybe change your name to bullshitsmart sound better

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Fluke Lsx

Hi you must be knew to Star Citizen facts: There’s a reason they changed game engines in 2016 to Lumberyard.

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Fluke Lsx

Don’t bother responding to my buddy Derek Smart, he wouldn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.

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dsmart

Chris Roberts, PC Gamer 1997. Spot anything?

View post on imgur.com

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Joe Blobers

LOD developer Derek Smart defends $99 Early Access fee article date: June 16 2014….. The 16th attempt to sell the same so called two decades old game under another name.

Announced to be removed from Steam in April 2016…. No pledges refundable as per Steam policy, all refund requests sent directly to DS being rejected.

24 September 2020: Still no sign of the Last Outrageous Disaster while SC backers did play SC since 7 years, with quarterly update.

Spot anything?

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Tee Parsley

Messianic photo? Same ol’ vainglorious palaver? Same response by holy warrior who can see no wrong? Same results too.

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Mathew Jones

go play LOD which was promised as a game hope it wont crash on yea,

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Armsman

Say the man who claimed Battlecruiser 3000 A.I was a ‘neural network’ back in 1996. (Never were able to deliver on THAT claim – were you Derek.)

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Fluke Lsx

Ahh my buddy Derek Smart! I enjoyed my time trolling you on your Twitter.

How are ya man…. How’d that refund situation go? How’s BattleCruiser 3000 AD going… Still a flop?

Here people we have Derek Smart. Ask him why he got refunded and banned from Star Citizen.

I’m sure he has plenty of lies to tell about it.

Most of the BS negativity you see online was started by this tool. He broke the rules, got a refund and got banned for it. Then went on a Witch Hunt to discredit Chris Roberts, CIG, and Star Citizen.

If there was ever a reason for abortion to be legal: Refer to Derek Smart

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Mathew Jones

say a failed dev a game that got kicked of steam, a dev who banned customers questions for asking help on Battlecruiser etc a person that lies thru his teeth use fake statements on star Citizen to prove his points who you lied about CIG on your forums on the law suit you have no proof no nothing not one bit to back your lies and no statement was every realised about who paid who paid who or what amount put your proof where your mouth is smart arse! DerekSmart you are a liar liar liar liar pants on fire

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scotty 2ridge

AMA but I will only answer one positive question and challenging questions will be removed. This is literally the opposite of what “Ask Me Anything” means and quite insulting for backers. It’s also interesting that this is Roberts first interaction with the people that gave him going on $400m in 2020 and his Twitter feed is silent.

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Bruno Brito

It’s also worthy pointing out that the “positive” question ended up screwing him because…well.

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Joe Blobers

No it is not insulting to answer question asked by backers and the last thing to talk about a game this ambitious is to communnicate via Twitter.

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Khrome

He responded to one single backer question in the past year (!) and he didn’t even answer it.

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Joe Blobers

Exactly what he said: one question at a time. Do pretend the question is not answered, your call. What matter is more information provided to backers who care.
Let’s ignore also all coms every weeks from CIG as it is well known that the single source of information is CR….

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Khrome

One question a year? What information is actually provided that’s not a blatant lie? What ‘comms’ from CIG are there which aren’t vague allusions to things they promised years ago?

They’re approaching $400m in budget and nearing 10 years of development and still do not have an actually working fundament for a game. They have a lot to answer for and they’re refusing to do so.

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Joe Blobers

Their best answer is playable 3.10 and upcoming patch together with the future AGILE roadmap.

CR did provided more details about quantum economy. It was to the point. Your problem if you don’t’ like it.

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Khrome

The best answer would be a playable, you know, game…

But there isn’t one. There’s a techdemo after 9 years of work which crashes once every 30 minutes on state of the art hardware.

9 years. $400m. Still no playable game.

Roberts needs to get booted from this project so someone can step in who knows how to actually finish stuff and let people get on with the jobs they were hired for.

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Joe Blobers

A none existing game played by 30.000 players daily.
What need to be booted out of internet are individual with “expertise” about everything made by mankind just because they are able to use a keyboard :)

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Khrome

Exactly, 30,000 people partake in a daily delusion that there is actually a playable game underneath the broken techdemo they paid hundreds of dollars for. And who is supposed to be impressed with that? The same people who are impressed with pyramid schemes like Theranos i guess? Because they also had ‘working products’ after 10 years of waffling about.

Why are you still defending Roberts? This game could have been excellent if anyone else would make it. Hell, at this point even Peter Molyneux would get more done than Roberts…

You do realize that what you are doing is basically finding excuse after excuse for a horrible manager who is comfortably living selling jpeg’s to gullible idiots?

Though i guess that even if in 10 years we *might* actually see Pyro being released in 4.0 after we had 3.27 for about a year, which brought us a new Idris customization option and a new building in New Babbage where you can customize said Idris, which you have to pay $$ for to enter after you’ve already paid $$ for the Idris, after SQ42 was announced to go into closed alpha in 2021 i mean 2022 i mean 2023 i mean 2024 i mean 2025 i mean 2026 i mean 2027 i mean 2028 i mean 2032…

I’m fairly sure you’re the kind of person who will come back to this thread in 2028 and say “SEE? SQ42 CLOSED ALPHA WILL BE RELEASED NEXT MONTH!” without a single shred of self-awareness.

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Joe Blobers

LOL… You are hard at work trying to twist reality. I know nobody who will spend hours in a game, alpha or released, if they don’t have fun doing it.
Most backers spent a basic starter package at 45$.

SQ42 will be released precisely… when ready :)

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Fluke Lsx

Joe, don’t bother. You can’t fix stupid, albeit all we can do is point it out when we see it.

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Fluke Lsx

Pretty much nothing you have said is true.

Sigh, guess my friend was right: Can’t argue with stupid people they have nothing to lose.

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Bruno Brito

Ok, ok. Let me see if i understand correctly:

So, this man decides to do an “AMA”. He then takes all the timeframe questions out of the table because he clearly doesn’t wanna talk about creeping the game with features that aren’t there yet…

And then they ask him of another feature and he says it’s not there yet.

Jesus fucking Christ, this game.

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dsmart

heh. But you know what’s lost in translation? This:

“Tony’s goal (goal != promise) is to have elements of the Dynamic Universe start to come online next year, likely towards the back half of the year, where player’s actions can impact both the Dynamic Economy and other players.”

Basically Star Citizen isn’t coming out by the end of 2021. So there’s that.

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Joe Blobers

Nor your MMO superior to anything released by mankind… the difference is that SQ42+SC are being developed and released by patch quarterly till ready. In 2021 the all project will have made progress and you will have nothing but a, not even playable, renamed battlecruiser :)

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Khrome

Trying to discredit valid and logical arguments with personal attacks and references to things which have nothing to do with the subject at hand. Class act! That sure shows people that Star Citizen cultists are levelheaded people, doesn’t it?

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Joe Blobers

DS does not need anyone to help discredit him LoL

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Khrome

Again, avoiding the actual argument. Not exactly making a great impression here.

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Joe Blobers

Krome, I did not avoided any argument: “the difference is that SQ42+SC are being developed and released by patch quarterly till ready”… adding also sentence about why this guy have zero credit toward the gaming community at large.
This project is about being ambitious, not letting gamer buy a a 16th copy of a game made two decades ago.
Diablo 3 took +10 years from a company with unlimited resources for a fraction of SQ42+SC scope.

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Khrome

I can add a word to a one paragraph essay every 3 months. That doesn’t mean i’m actually doing any work.

Diablo 3 took 9 years and was restarted from scratch twice during that time. What you’re also conveniently leaving out is that the total budget for that game was less than $100m and the team was also a lot smaller.

Oh, and you know what? Diablo 3 was actually a finished game when it was released!

And lastly, as i said before, ambition does no equate to productivity or quality. It’s a marketing buzzword that you fell hook, line and sinker for.

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Fluke Lsx

Let me edjoomacate you on scope of deeablow vs Star Citizen.

The ENTIRE FUCKING GAME OF SKYRIM fits in to one crater on the smallest moon in Star Citizen.

STFU, you literally have no pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of.

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Fluke Lsx

When you present a real argument we will respond.

But I imagine your IQ doesn’t go that high to form any logical thought process necessary to produce a legitimate argument?

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Fluke Lsx

Says the guy who is under the table with Dick Spasm?

And you want to talk about cults?

Hint: Don’t drink the Kool-Aid its probably filled with jizz.

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Fluke Lsx

They never said it was you fucking twat.

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Private Pino

Scam Citizen

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Reginald Atkins

honestly I wanted this game to succeed, even bought a ship back when you could get one for 20$ which was a long time ago, however, I was “cautiously optimistic” even then. Been gaming for a long time so I know Chris Roberts ideas are often large in scope and lean in execution….

So, here we are and my Duke Nukem Forever sense is tingling….

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Bruno Brito

Chris Roberts ideas are often large in scope and lean in execution….

Which made Microsoft dump him, specially since he’s prone to waste quite the buck on his ideas.

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Tee Parsley

Nice quote, but the guy who headed Freelancer for MS said he felt Roberts had taken money and focus from Freelancer to do the Wing Commander movie. That’s more than ‘lean in execution.’

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Khrome

He didn’t feel, he knew. Microsoft did some accounting and found that the Freelancer project had $8 mil missing, it was gone, somewhere, and Roberts could not say where.

Obviously Microsoft knew what was up after the Wing Commander movie project suddenly got $8 mil extra budget ‘out of nowhere’, so they threw Roberts out of his own company.

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Joe Blobers

Lol. All from finance auditor source of course… :)

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Khrome

No, from the man himself. You seem to be smart enough to know about this.

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Joe Blobers

Ok so no source… so surprising :)

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Tee Parsley

At one point I tried to research the funding for the Wing Commander movie. My google fu failed after following a series of nested one-off LLCs. Someone was playing fast and loose with it.

Also, Origin employees told me that Digital Anvil folks told them the money was moved from Freelancer to the movie. Hearsay for me though, til the MS producer let loose.

This is the main reason I have for being suspicious of actual fiscal malfeasence in the SC project, as opposed to Roberts usual vainglorious managerial incompetance.

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Joe Blobers

Quote: “Origin employees told me that Digital Anvil folks told them….”

Ok…. straight from the horse’s mouth.

The main reason I have zero suspicion about CIG money mishandling is that the board director is made of well known individual, including lawyer and that Calder’s private investor do have all insight vision of RSI structure and books before investing any $… and are part of the shareholders board meeting… on the side of CR, an incompetent manager that transform a none existing company at end of kickstarter to a 460M$ company value back in 2018 while pledges account to “only 213M$” of this amount….

If only we could have more incompetent like him.

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Khrome

Yes, because people running pyramid schemes are technically also competent because they made a lot of money.

Where’s the actual product? The game that was promised to be released in 2014? And then again in 2015? And again in 2016? And again in 2017? And again in 2018 and 2019 and 2020, and now it’s 2021? Are you seriously deluded enough to believe this game is ever coming out when the entire business model of the company relies on selling jpeg’s to whales and always saying “next year is our year”?

Why should i trust these people NOW if they NEVER made good on ANY promise they made? What makes you think that any date or year they mention on any roadmap, plan or whatever will actually be true at this point?

Because the only reason i can think of is ‘blind faith’ and i reserve that for my friends and family, not some stranger who got rich off of empty promises.

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Joe Blobers

Pyramid scheme… don’t forget scam, mafia laundering, coffee machine and all memes who make naysayers a never ending entertaining moment :)

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Mathew Jones

a pyramid scheme is what where you keep selling a product from one person to the next to the next
‘A pyramid scheme is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products.”
so Star Citizen isn’t that as it has only one end consumer when brought that been the person who brought it. fact

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Mathew Jones

The video game Duke Nukem Forever spent fifteen years in development, from 1996 to 2011 if you use they remade it from the start so has cig

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Jack Tyme

Wow SC. Everything is always far away and way off etc with you guys.

Getting old.

Zsokorad
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Zsokorad

Elite: Dangerous is doing some good stuff right now.

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Joe Blobers

Yes and NMS, EVE as well. None of them are even close of SC alpha and will not be even with another couple of years of patch or expansion. 4 different games offering different experience.

I know no ones who can’t afford to spend 45$ every year (even less discounted) to play/test new space experience… like others are buying each new Fifa.

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Khrome

Fifa is an abhorrent game, but at least EA is selling a somewhat finished product which is actually working and feature complete…

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Joe Blobers

Cool except backer pledge for a space game and EA are doing none of this scope and will never do as their single goal is to use old game, re-skin them, add a few new assets and sold it as new for only 39 up to +80 with “Ultimate” version, year after year.

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Khrome

But they have a finished, working game.

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Joe Blobers

Yes with 1 % of SQ42+SC scope… after years of DLC’s.