Black Desert adjusts for 'casual lite' Korean market

Every game changes during testing, but Black Desert seems to have changed even more significantly compared to its original vision from the fan standpoint. One such fan recently penned an article explaining what changes the game has made since its first iteration and why fans are frustrated by them. What's behind all those changes? A new interview with Pearl Abyss explains that there's a pretty simple reason: Testers demanded them.

"The tendency of users changed a lot in the past couple of years, and the changes are lot more certain with players exposed to mobile environment," PA told the Black-Desert.com fansite. "There are a lot of casual lite gamers in Korean market. We are servicing our game based on our players' demands."

Western fans who aren't happy with the shifts can take heart that the version of the game that lands in North America and Europe will be different from the Korean version. There's also a spot of hope for players eager to try the game for themselves, as the western version is apparently due to enter testing on an accelerated schedule. Take a gander at the full interview for details on why the game is what it currently is.

[Source: Black Desert Revelation. Thanks, Kinya and Dystopiq.]
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101 Comments on "Black Desert adjusts for 'casual lite' Korean market"

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TitianHero
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TitianHero

Players blame developer. Developer blames publisher. Publisher blames players. The eternal cycle of "it's not our fault".

Celestia
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Celestia

wild_abyss Kayweg Lite is certainly cromulent.

mmonerd
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mmonerd

PS : Never trust a korean mmo developer. One archeage is enough for me !

Satyros
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Satyros

This interview is worth reading. 
It most certainly expresses the current problem of the MMO market, oversimplification.
The answer to half the questions are "we introduced/removed this to help the casual gamer ". 
This is the first time a company goes all-out and explains.. We changed because you are no longer our target crowd. We now target casuals who come and go in a matter of days"
And this is a big deal. Especially if this game does not crush and burn.

Cyroselle
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Cyroselle

Agreed. I would have expected the 'hardcore heavy' from the Korean version.

Cyroselle
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Cyroselle

And all that going outside and stuff!

wild_abyss
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wild_abyss

Kayweg What bothers me is that "lite" is not even a word. >.>

Cyroselle
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Cyroselle

There's whining, fair enough yes, but there are also insightful comments and quasi-dissertations such as yours, /because/ (rather than despite) this being a game site on the internet. Massively drawn in all kinds. :)

Bitrip
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Bitrip

Casual lite gamer to me translates to heavy micro-transactions. I'm gonna run away from Black Desert faster than Paula Deen would sign up for a butter convention.

Kayweg
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Kayweg

"Casual lite korean market" sounds to me like a market lite on casuals, as in: not many of 'em ?
I mean, i get the article, but shouldn't it read "Casual heavy korean market".
Then again, i'm not a native english speaker.
As for the news bit itself, isn't this pretty much the same pattern as ArcheAge ? Great early reception during beta, then multiple original features being cut ?

SwobyJ
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SwobyJ

Okay. Sorta glad I don't have to pay any more attention to this game TBH.

Zulika_Mi_Nam
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Zulika_Mi_Nam

Veldan Zulika_Mi_Nam Flamethekid  I agree.  I was just showing how some people play different aspects.
I ran one dungeon twice (I think), never finished the personal story, never went through the fractals thingies, but I have played the poo out of WvW because I like it and there are few other games that have that type of gameplay. I am willing to pay for that type of gameplay. The other type of stuff I could easily find in the big pile of clone games, probably for free.

Sinaptic
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Sinaptic

Flamethekid 
You dont know?
Edward Snowden is Golden Girl.

Sinaptic
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Sinaptic

bardamu1999 ManastuUtakata 
I take them to mean GW2 players.

bardamu1999
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bardamu1999

SallyBowls1 They've been successful, just not as successful as the bean counter's projections hoped they'd be.  It's all about projections,. expectations, and ROI with that crowd; look at SWTOR, such a disaster they went from full box+sub to abusively monetized F2P faster than even the most vicious haters could have predicted due to panic over the profit projections.  They thought that game was going to topple WoW, and while was hugely successful, it didn't come close to toppling WoW, and that's why there was that disconnect between the Tortanic behavior and how the game actually was doing all along.

bardamu1999
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bardamu1999

DoctorOverlord This is right on.  The future looks bright indeed as long as you're ok with highly idiosyncratic, potentially hardcore games with tiny populations compared to the WoW and post-WoW era.

bardamu1999
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bardamu1999

Tamanous I think once this crop of crowdfunded sandboxy games comes out, whichever ones make it to launch, we will see a shift back to a smaller scale and more intense kind of MMO.  After all, take away the appeal to the masses and bring back the niche hardcore play and you'll find communities of 200-300K or so, very committed but very small.  Just like it used to be.

bardamu1999
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bardamu1999

kgptzac Considering how casual as a play style has shifted over the years to get easier and easier WoW's casual players in 2004 are like the hardcore players of 2010.   But in the very beginning there were elements of the game which were harder, raids, for example.

bardamu1999
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bardamu1999

ausj3w3l If they're going this route they should at least pull an ESO/SWTOR and charge for the box + a sub for the few months they can get it, then when everybody but the hardcore casual lites ;) move on just go P2P/F2P.  At least then then game might be considered a middling success monetarily.

bardamu1999
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bardamu1999

ManastuUtakata I LOLed when I read "casual lite" which to me is like saying "an illiterate illiterate" as if that's somehow even *more* illiterate.  As if lite doesn't already imply casual, or as if casual player don't play lightly?
To me if you say something like casual lite the only way I can take it are those self-playing MMOs where you just click the mouse over and over.  :D

Veldan
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Veldan

Zulika_Mi_Nam Veldan Flamethekid I didn't say that every single player in GW2 is casual, I said it targeted casuals. Which I still think it did. Everything, including WvW, is very accessible and casual friendly.

Vibed
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Vibed

Casual lite disco dancers.

Red Alert
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Red Alert

mustplay Being a casual gamer doesn't mean being lazy. Just that these ppl have other more important matters to attend in their lives and use games as getaway to have fun for a few hours a week. Having your opinion and your prefferred style of gameplay is ok. But calling names anyone alse who doesn't meet your 'standards' in online gaming is not cool.

Red Alert
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Red Alert

I don't care if a game has hardcore pvp/open world features as long they are not forced into my experience. Have the servers divided into pvp/pve/rp and i i'll give this game a try.

ClassicCrime
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ClassicCrime

dear god... sooo many red flags in that interview...
"For example, a sale of cash items, such as
accessories and underwear, were not so great when they were sold
without any bonus stats. But the sales started to rise after we added
stats such as luck +1 or knowledge gain probability."
"We meant for Blader to be little stronger.
We wanted players to level little faster as Blader was released later
than other classes."

...

ManastuUtakata
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ManastuUtakata

"Casual lite"...it never ceases to amaze what the MMO industry comes up with in euphemisms these days. But I can't really tell, if this means the casual of casuals end of the spectrum. Or hardcore nutters who think they might be casual. And all points in between.
That said, I feel there's a simple solution in all this, if they just introduce server type options like that already exists with may MMO's: PvP and PvE servers. That way, they don't try to force the gank and spank rule sets to mesh with care and bear ones, or visa versa, that 'll just end up pissing everyone off. And like the introduction of boob sliders on the character creator, that nullifies the wars between the crude and prude, this should end the debate of putting every shape of peg into a convoluted shaped hole.
...of course, this would take significant work and creativity to bring this to fruition. But it's far better than driving every player off, by forcing everyone into rule set to appease everyone. It just won't work.

ausj3w3l
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ausj3w3l

great, and lets see how this works out from them when catering to a crowd that will probably leave them before a month is gone to jump on the next shiny title.

lostsanityreturned
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lostsanityreturned

kgptzac Damonvile Zulika_Mi_Nam Yup, WoW's entire design philosophy was based around them taking Everquest 1's gameplay format and making it FAR more accessible and removing all the hardcore aspects.
I am not joking in the slightest, WoW on launch was the most accessible and least punishing MMO I knew of.

lostsanityreturned
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lostsanityreturned

EatCandy you know that a dime a dozen means "so common it is worthless"
The phrase makes no sense when talking about mmo player bases -laughs- (from either angle)

LilyCheng
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LilyCheng

Sweet so they've removed every sandbox and open world element of the game, now I don't need to bother getting hyped or trying this game out anymore.

Radfist
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Radfist

Yeah I was a GW1 fanboy and left GW2 pretty quickly. Aside from the lore the two games are nothing alike.
I play through the living story as it pops up, but the combat just makes me sad when you compare it to the first game.

yeahreally
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yeahreally

Now that they're actively targeting the casual market, I'll have to give this game a try when it becomes available over here.

Zulika_Mi_Nam
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Zulika_Mi_Nam

Damonvile kgptzac Zulika_Mi_Nam Hardcore/softcore/casual doesn't matter to me.  The fact that we now have to fund the bulk of our own games may be an indicator of where my concern lies.

Zulika_Mi_Nam
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Zulika_Mi_Nam

Veldan Flamethekid Zulika_Mi_Nam GW2 did many things right, and I think many of us are only disappointed with it because it could have been so much more.
Unfortunately the entire customerbase can only support so many games, and the casual wow-clone portion of the pool is super saturated.  I do not want the constant flow of perceived failures to continue hurting future investments.

I just logged out of GW2, am I casual?

Veldan
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Veldan

Flamethekid Veldan Zulika_Mi_Nam I can't say I understand this argument. I came from GW too when GW2 launched, but I played only very shortly and am definitely not part of GW2's success. I found it very easy to leave :D

Flamethekid
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Flamethekid

SallyBowls1 mustplay they get 1000% of the customers/revenue for basically like 1 year and then the next year they start getting greedy for money since people treat the mmo like a drive through and leave after they hit the end game in a month before the developers can even manage to push out new content and then said game close a few months afterwards 

thats not any profit thats just a small gain and tons of wasted effort,hope, ideas, and dream just tossed down the garbage and the remaining good part in the wallet of some buisnessman who probably doesn't even know what pc means

Flamethekid
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Flamethekid

usagizero Tamanous the concept of making everything solo makes the company lose alot of money as well too 

mabinogi did something similar by making content faar easier in order to appeal to casuals alot of people quit till they had to change some systems to bring back game population

Flamethekid
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Flamethekid

Veldan Zulika_Mi_Nam GW was already an ip that many people played before guild war 2 then all the people from guild war came to GW2 then the hype for guild war attracted players to it and people spent money and made friends since it is buy to play meaning that it will be hard to leave if u pay a bit of money to play in the first place

Flamethekid
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Flamethekid

Damonvile kgptzac Zulika_Mi_Nam pure hardcore games aren't any better than casual i rather just have a game that isn't so easy that a person in a coma can play and reach endgame in a week or a few days but isn't that hard that you need 24/7 godmode to play

WoW catered to people with low computer specs, people who suck at doing anything besides point and click button rotations,

and alot of people only know WoW and all their friends are their that they know and found from doing ground content and raids(hence why the push for mmo's becoming single player is stupid)

anyways casual games are mostly stupid and are only pretty for like 1-3 months till u quit

Veldan
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Veldan

Zulika_Mi_Nam It seems to me that GW2 targeted casuals and was very succesful with it.
Probably because it did some things different though... get too close to
WoW and you compete over players, which WoW always wins.

Damonvile
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Damonvile

kgptzac Damonvile Zulika_Mi_Nam You don't have to have ever played it to see just how silly his claim was. Hardcore gamers have certainly not shown any more dedication to mmos than any other stereotype people want to throw out there. All statements like his does is show which camp he throws stones from.

Veldan
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Veldan

SallyBowls1 mustplay For the same reason that there are musicians that are not trying to score big hits, or movie directors that are not trying to make a blockbuster, or CSE making Camelot Unchained. Some people actually have a vision still, and want to produce something of quality, without sacrificing their ideas to make more money.

Zulika_Mi_Nam
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Zulika_Mi_Nam

Damonvile Zulika_Mi_Nam Wow is the reason that many of games go in this direction and also the reason that fail.  They cannot take WoWs customer base and they are not enough new gamers to the genre to recreate it.
Many have tried with the same model, but it has yet to work.  I do not see why the 50th clone would be anymore successful than the 49 before it.

Zulika_Mi_Nam
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Zulika_Mi_Nam

EatCandy Zulika_Mi_Nam I had read that about the beta at one time too, but the article referenced in this piece states that Daum wants it here quickly so maybe they are pushing it.

I have seen nothing on the funds made except that article about what they made one week and the answer in this article where they state that they made more from the cash shop once they started selling items with stats.

kgptzac
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kgptzac

Veldan kgptzac Black Desert advertised as a pvp oriented, open world, sandbox.  People who like this kind of gameplay followed this game, and are upset because the developers justify their 360-degree turn in design principle and admit that they want to chase the money.

By your logic I can give feedback to SE to make FF14 to have an open PK system or telling CCP to make players unable to fire their ships' weapon another player ship and all NPC-incurred ship loss to be fully reimbursed (with fitting) by the system, oh and also pods should be invulnerable and untargetable.

I can give those feedback but it doesn't worth anything; it will not be considered serious and useful only to train a possible troll-recognizing algorithm that possibly patrols their forum.  So the question is, why do you think the "feedback" that caused BO's developer changed minds are real and qualifying, be it from the west or east, given they contradict the very principle of the game the devs supposed to make?

kgptzac
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kgptzac

Caerulei kgptzac As Goronmon mentioned, what FF14 has is not really westernization, but just a flat translation.  If I remember correctly, the term "westernization" brought to popularity by the people who "westernized" TERA.  I played that game and found nothing compelling, so I take this marketing term with even more skepticism.

Also I believe that there isn't really possible (nor is it logical) to balance pvp differently on different regional server.  I think it is only feasible to hope the cash shop is less pay2win.

kgptzac
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kgptzac

Damonvile Zulika_Mi_Nam I never played WoW, but I heard it catered more than just casual... at least in the beginning.

Damonvile
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Damonvile

Zulika_Mi_Nam  We'll just ignore wow and it's decade long run at the top catering to casuals. Nice one...

Tamanous
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Tamanous

usagizero Tamanous

Concept means "niche". Niche means customizing a product for a specific consumer group with specific needs. It is the basic approach to any small business. The problem is this is big business which is all about cash flow models. So you either make a product targeting an specific audience which garners a a more loyal fanbase or your target a broad audience with a far less change at individual retention. BOTH can make money. One however is better as making more money quicker. So are you making a product based on a specific concept for a specific audience ... or catering to money potential? 

What you are saying tells me you drank the big developer Kool-Aid long ago if cannot see that video games can be art and target specific audiences. Mmos want retention ... yet build their entire game around a rotating door policy in order to grab cash and more freely invite the Heralded Whale the F2P model supports.

A good game can survive perfectly well targeting a niche audience. It has to have a cash model that supports it and allows in game systems to do their job. This game originally advertised itself as one thing then changed. I do not believe the NA audience will get a drastically different game. Do we gain the source code and develop it itself? Are they going to make 2 entirely different content patches each push? Is there even a preference for it? 

Mmorpgs used to be niche. They were made for specific audiences and did very well. So well an entire industry was created. The industry money making machine took it over to maximize short term profits that befit the quarterly earnings reports demanded from investors. This has NOTHING to do with how well a niche game can do based entirely concept. No small business would ever exist if what you are saying is true. EVE never would have existed to today if what you say is true. The game only has to be good and it will grow and retain customers. The difference is dependent upon if the developer wants to make maximum potential earnings or is ok with a product in a more secure market making less money but with a longer potential shelf life.

I don't care about this game at all. I wasn't even interested in playing it. I only identify the trend that is destroying originality is gaming. Every mmo is becoming a Walmart. If that is the world you want then so be it. You perpetuate the problem. You have a choice to support something suited to your needs which obviously isn't mine or many others but frankly I am tired of ignorant people saying that because they like vanilla ice cream I therefore have no right to choose another flavor. 

There is no surprise here. This is a big developer bending toward big business trends. The consumer plays no role in this choice. If you want to be completely powerless in this process then keep supporting them.

borghive
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borghive

usagizero You assume that these games are failures because they failed to attract 10 million subscribers. From what I read Wildstar is still making money and ESO is also making money. This is the exact mentality that I speaking of that has invaded the MMO market though. Everyone is trying to chase WoW like subs by doing what BLizzard did by polishing and streamlining their MMO for mass appeal instead of trying to innovate. Most publishers won't even bother with new concepts because they are afraid that it fail. Hopefully the indie crowdforging studios will be able to give us something fresh. I mean these games won't attract WoW like sub numbers but they will garner enough to be able to make a profit on the game as to continue its development, 

People have to remember there are many types of gamers out there. Just like in the supermarket world not everyone wants to shop at Wal-Mart just because they sell almost everything you could want at cheap prices. (bad analogy here I know) There is definitely room in the MMO market for niche games that aren't like what we have been given the last 10 years.

Oh FF14 1.0 wasn't successful because the game was very incomplete. Yes they added a lot of elements that mimic Warcraft, but the original game was just a utter mess, (I was there I know)

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