Camelot Unchained hardens up to squash some bugs, prepares for tentative weekend test

    
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With another week comes another Camelot Unchained development update, and the folks at City State Entertainment have been hard at work ironing out bugs and creating new features for the upcoming RvR-focused title. This week the Camelot Unchained team set off on a development sprint they call “hardening,” which refers to the process of “wrapping up the previous three weeks of productive work (closer to four), and addressing bugs.” As a result of the bug-fixing marathon, the team “managed to get some optimizations onto the NPC server, which added even more active NPCs to the Battle for Cherry Keep” in addition to squashing a number of bugs related to abilities and the UI.

The art and animation teams have been hard at work as well, as they’ve “completed the attacks, walk, and run locomotion for the greatsword animation set” that was previewed a few weeks back, and now they’re working on adding animations for the Luchorpán race as well as attack animations for shortbows and longbows. You can see some work-in-progress previews of animations for yourself in the full dev update, and if you’re still hankering for more Camelot Unchained goodness, you can catch up with the most recent Q&A livestream just below.

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Chris Ochs

Predicting how long a complex game takes to make, is much like solving an NP hard problem in math. If we knew how to make hit games every time on a schedule, we would also likely have a cure for cancer and have solved a whole bunch of other really hard problems.

So the only accurate answer is it takes as long as it takes until you arrive or run out of funding.

Players expecting dates or getting upset when they are missed, is as wrong as developers providing them. That both sides continue to do so means there must be something in our nature that compels it. Because on both sides we keep doing it even though we have literally decades of history telling us the reality works somewhat differently.

Hamblepants
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Hamblepants

Re: the people who come to these threads to hate on this game:

CU looks like it could be one of the first few next-gen MMO’s, if the devs get it right. And there’s 0 scope creep and full refunds – I think lots of ppl see where CU’s going and the rigid focus and commitment to achieving the vision, and they’re bitter about their own MMO-love-projects not having that (even though they may have faster dev time or an ever-expanding list of truly excellent features, which are appealing in their own way).

There’s no guarantee this project meets its scope, but the devs are clearly, and slowly but surely, getting closer to the vision.

To be clear though: anyone disappointed/frustrated with the repeated missed deadlines, that’s 100% valid, I’m one of those people.

Hamblepants
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Hamblepants

I’d rather CSE just come out and say “hey, look, it’s gonna take another 2.5-3 years to get to launch” because the 2019 public release date just looks like damage control from where I’m sitting.

Maybe then everyone would refund, though. I honestly don’t know.

And as much as Deekay’s quasi-emotional-breakdown in the comments is jarring to me, I can understand being pissed when the deadlines, and status about how far the game has come, are really not clear (and not close enough to complete) – unclear either to backers or to anyone else, outside of those ppl with some control of the studio.

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Mark Jacobs

If I thought it would take 3, 2.5 or even 2 more years, I’d say that in a heartbeat HP. FYI, we’re (the game’s leads, producers, and I) are having daily meetings about our sprints and schedules. I can promise you that nobody in that group has said that the game will take 2.5, 3, etc. more years to bring out.

Every date I’ve given out recently has been dates that CSE as a team said was doable. They are also the same dates we’ve given our investors. It really is as simple as that.

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Hamblepants

@Mark I’m willing to believe that you believe this, so maybe it isn’t damage control.

But in that case, it’s hard to believe the game can go from where it is in the user stories/weekly updates to a finished game in under a year. It seems like optimism about timelines that I don’t share (as opposed to optimism about features/promise keeping, that I do share).

To be honest, the idea of going from here to there in under a year makes me worried there won’t be enough time to complete features, and won’t be time to tweak it til it’s fun.

I don’t see from current updates/user stories to launch in less than 12 months ending in a fun game with complete gameplay loops (fun game with complete loops does not equal a fully fleshed out/expansive MMO, which obv takes years past launch).

For @Deekay or @Apollo, it boggles my mind that either of you think that the estimated timelines CSE published were promises, they clearly aren’t and weren’t. And the vast majority of other MMO’s with public schedules are way behind as well (which is almost exclusively the crowd-funded ones, because why would publisher-based-devs go through the drama of disappointed followers roping them into insulting-bullsh** [looking at you both] if they don’t need to?).

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Randy Savage

It’s pretty annoying how the Star Citizen fanboys keep hijacking every Camelot Unchained article when the only thing these two games have in common is that they’re both crowdfunded. This site needs to give us the ability to block other posters. If I wanted to read trolls shitposting, I’d go to Reddit.

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Mark Jacobs

It’s a shame. If I was going into SC threads and shitposting about SC, I’d deserve it in response, but I don’t do that. The only time I talk about other game makers here on Massively is to praise them and wish them the best, including SC. Every so often I make a joke in streams, but I do the same about CU, and myself.

The other shame is that as I’ve said to OC, I think he has posted some very smart comments about games outside of SC and even some very valid criticism about us. In DK’s case, I’ve watched some of his streams and enjoyed them. He also has said some critical things about SC at times and I respect that.

There’s just no need to make things personal, and that applies to SC as well as to me. That’s the stuff that has always disappointed me and why I stay away from it, no matter what my thoughts about another developer (at least to date). Even when I make jokes about spaceships, beg-a-thons, our lateness, I don’t talk about the people themselves. And if I do make it personal, it’s to blame myself.

The only exception to that is if/when somebody says something that’s just not true (such as I bailed out of Mythic), and then I will respond. But this is nothing new, I did the same thing decades ago, so at least I’m consistent. :)

All of our communities here at MOP should just get along with each other. And, as I’ve pointed out before, I want SC to succeed more than I think the average player doe. It’s because I care about the games industry and Kickstarter, and we need SC to succeed if we want KS to continue to succeed. Without it, neither SC nor CU would have been able to do what we have done to date, try to make games/dreams/spaceships/castle sieges come true.

Thanks for the support RS!

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Randy Savage

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Covynant001
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Covynant001

Err…I only saw SC mentioned once in the entire thread, well at least until Mark’s most recent post anyways.

Do appreciate the irony of your post however, awesome job there.

Mark has been very transparent and quite vocal, more so than most, except for that “one thing” which he’ll then dance around with the best of them.

:D

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Randy Savage

The people routinely attacking CU are in SC articles defending that game. That’s the connection.

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Mark Jacobs

Cov, hehe, you mean the release date? If so, the answer is simple, we keep missing our dates so I said I was going to stop giving them. I also said at the time that was one of the reasons we keep the full refund policy going even after this amount of time.

Now if you mean will we make 2019? I’m sticking to the plan which is until I’m 100% sure that we won’t make 2019, that’s what we want to hit. It’s the same theory as above, just from the other side.

OTOH, if I’m dancing around something else, let me know, my legs could probably use a break. :)

Covynant001
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Covynant001

Fair enough, 2019 it is….until you say it isn’t. Goals are good and I know they aren’t guarantees.

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Mark Jacobs

Thanks Cov.

BTW, if/when I tell our investors that we can’t make 2019, we’ll tell our Backers right after that.

As you say, it’s still our goal and we’re hiring towards that end as I’ve been saying in our livestreams. We’ve added some great engineers but we need more if we are going to make it.

Hamblepants
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Hamblepants

Fwiw I don’t think Deekay’s response or Apollo’s are from SC fanboyism, I think it’s from unmet expectations about CU, expectations based on the timelines laid out by CSE themselves.

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Dean Greenhoe

Keep on making the sausage.. it can be ugly, it can take longer than expected but in the end we all love sausage.

Two thumbs up for the sausage makers!

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Doulos

<3

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IronSalamander8 .

Still watching this from afar. Very curious about the small tidbits of info we get on the outside. Not a huge PvP fan in this kind of thing normally but I did enjoy WAR for all its issues (it was definitely pushed out the door too early), so if it’s good, I’ll likely give it a try once it’s more readily available.

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Mark Jacobs

Perfectly fine approach.

When we lift the NDA, everybody will be able to see exactly what they are going to get if/when they donate to Camelot Unchained from character creation to large-scale sieges. Once we can show that in the way we want to with all visual bugs cleaned up, we’ll put out a video and let people stream some tests. The big things on my list are:

1) Smoother movement/animation – We’re getting there but we’re not quite there yet.

2) All abilities firing off with proper VFX – no placeholders or glitches.

3) Smooth building destruction – We are still improving performance. We can now destroy a huge building pretty smoothly but when an entire section of wall falls it takes a bit too long to settle down. Once we fix that, we’ll be good to go.

4) New UIs in and working as needed – Things like the new ability creation, crafting UI, grouping UI, etc.

5) Next set of improvements in lighting system – Once again, we’re close but not quite there yet.

Each of these things are almost there but sometimes that last 1% can take longer than we’d like.

The good news is that as that as of now we can have a siege with over 2K NPCs, ARCs/Bots, and players and the destruction of a 9.4M block building. Hopefully in another couple of weeks we’ll have the number of NPCs up even higher.

Thanks for your interest, past support, whether you decide to donate or not.

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Mark Jacobs

Forgot to add:
6) A smoother experience for controlling things like trebuchets, mortars, rams, etc.

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ting

I’ve been a long standing follower of Mark since the release of DAoC. I’ve also been a critic in some of his decisions from ToA, the Games Workshop License, and the partnership with EA. I have yet to buy into CU based on those decisions, but even still, the comments I see here are unwarranted and pretty unfair. Mark has always put communication at the forefront of his company. The idea of a community manager was something Mythic paved in the industry and the communication today with CSE is pretty incredible. A far fetch from a scam. Although, those who would say that are most likely just looking for a reaction.

When CU started development and announced they were going to develop their own game engine I knew right off the bat it was going to take them a seriously long time to develop the game given the budget they had to work with. Game engines are insanely expensive to develop. Over the last 18 years I’ve met former Mythic Employees, passionate DAOC gamers from the Rountables, to introducing a generation of them to DAOC within LAN Parties and Cyber Cafes I used to own. I communicate with a lot of them today and they all say they don’t care how long it takes as long as they can capture the magic DAOC did when it released. This hardcore dedicated fanbase will see Mark to the finish line and hopefully the rest of the gaming world will understand that this isn’t a cashgrab, but a game made by a group of passionate developers for passionate players. Something we desperately need in the industry today. So please, if you feel a game doesn’t live up to your expectations find something you enjoy. Life is too short to insult someone just to be negative. Anyone trying to deliver a great game for us to enjoy deserves our respect and admiration despite the mistakes they may have made in the past or future.

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Mark Jacobs

Really well said ting, thank you for that. I’ll settle for respect though. Admiration is nice of course, I’m human like the rest of us, but respect is more important to me.

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Tamanous

LOL @ the people trolling because they know nothing about the game’s status … on an article about a WEEKLY update on the status of the game.

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Apollo Haner

How is that December 2015 release date doing? Are you competing with Star Citizen, to see who can pull the longest crowd sourcing scam?

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Sargon

In what way does this even resemble a crowd sourcing scam? CSE isn’t actively seeking more money from players and they haven’t for years. This isn’t a project that is continually bleeding its players dry while sitting in development purgatory. They are securing their own funding to continue development. Sure, they didn’t hit the original release estimate – Far from it. But they have been completely open throughout the process and, as far as I know, are willing to give refunds to anyone who asks. More than any other crowd funded project, I trust in what Mark and CSE are doing, and I am willing to wait patiently for the results.

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Mark Jacobs

Apollo, well, if we’re scamming people, I’m among the scammed because of the money I’ve invested into it. And since I didn’t take any money from CSE/Backers (other than the company health insurance), I didn’t profit from it. But hey, you and I had this same exchange before so I guess if we’re still late, you can still say the same things again. :)

Sargon, yep, still doing the full refund thing. Did a bunch today as a matter of fact.

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Apollo Haner

Are they still collecting money for a game that was supposed to be out in Dec 2015? Yes. Does the game have a release date 4.5 years after it was supposed to release? No. Do they have anything of substance to show after 6.5 years? No. Has Mark delivered an unfinished game before, and then bailed, leaving his friends holding the bag? Yes.

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Mark Jacobs

Apollo, you are now lying. I never bailed on EA or Mythic, ever. I worked for EA, they made the decision, not me. I had no interest in leaving EA/Mythic at the time, as my “friends” knew. I was not happy with some of the decisions being made in regards to SWToR and what I guessed was going to happen to Mythic. What I said to my “partner” was that Mythic was going to end up being “Bioware’s Bitch” and a lot of people were going to lose their jobs and I wanted his help to keep that from happening. His reaction was that he didn’t care. A little while later, I was gone.

Oh, and BTW, I was the only guy arguing for not releasing WAR in its state. Not a single one of my “friends” would say that they agreed with me. One said that he would support whatever I did (sadly, he wasn’t the co-founder) but nobody would say I was right.

You can argue whether what we have is substantive or not, that is always in the eyes of the beholder. You can insult me all you want, as you did in the other thread a number of months ago, enjoy yourself. But, as to bailing. I never bailed on Mythic nor EA, and you are lying if you say otherwise.

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Apollo Haner

Funny you claim to not have bailed, because in our past exchanges, you have admitted to as much. We both know which of us is lying. I completely understand that you would prefer to revise history, and just bask in the mindless adulation of your small cult of followers.

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Mark Jacobs

Really? I’m looking at our past exchange (https://massivelyop.com/2018/12/03/camelot-unchained-talks-64-bit-client-animations-and-class-building-in-beta/) and I said: “And what happened to WAR after I left? And what successful games did Mythic Entertainment do after I left? Hmmm…

How is that admitting I bailed? I left the company. That’s what happens when you are fired, you leave the company. I could have said exited, walked out the door, thrown out the door, etc., but I specifically choose the softest way to say it, as I have from the day EA and I parted ways. I’ve been consistent in this approach since 2009, and I’m not changing precisely because nobody is perfect. EA, my “friends”, myself all made mistakes with WAR, and I won’t be the guy who throws everybody under the bus for his own satisfaction. But you couldn’t be more wrong about what happened at EA/Mythic if you tried.

And since all you really seem to do is want to insult me and now our game’s Backers, I’ll simply just wish you a great day and ignore you the next time you want to pop on a thread here and throw insults my way.

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Apollo Haner

As you are well aware, we have had multiple exchanges. I don’t need to convince your rabid followers, all that matters is that we both know the truth.

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Mark Jacobs

Apollo, linkage please. As far as I can tell from searching the site, you and I had that one exchange here. Which one are you referring to or are you referring to a conversation on another site?

The bottom line is, once again, EA and I parted ways. They made the call, not me. If you are saying that isn’t the truth, you are lying. I was pissed at EA, pissed at the direction they wanted to go, pissed at what I thought was going on in another studio, but the departure from EA was their choice.

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Arthen Wolfsbane

The major difference is that developers of Camelot Unchained are not selling virtual goods for large sums of money or offering a subscription for a game that isn’t released . Also Camelot Unchained is in its beta stage where Star Citizen is stuck what seems like a never ending Alpha .

Maybe the game is later than expected but it at least does seem to be entering the final stages before release unlike Star Citizen .

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

nda

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Mark Jacobs

DK: Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

:)

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

that’s not at all why i keep posting “NDA”.

and you know it, and every backer that has taken a look throughout the past year knows it.

you come here and defend your game against people who are legally bound not to talk about the reality of the state of your game. you have everyone here at a disadvantage.

and i would love to input on many a post on this comment section but i am bound by NDA for a crowdfunded game that is labeled as beta for a year now.

don’t @ me mark until you drop that NDA and we can discuss without you having a legal sledgehammer to defend your project against any and all criticism of the state of things with.

in the meantime NDA says it all. and the NDA in the context of comment sections like these.

come back when we can talk freely. in the meantime responses like this are rude and inflammatory at best. but sure keep lording it over people.