Co-op will be limited in Star Citizen’s Squadron 42 [Updated]

Do you love debating over semantics and unstated intent? Because you’re going to have a field day with this one. The original Kickstarter page for Star Citizen lists the game’s single-player campaign as offering drop-in/drop-out multiplayer options, with other interviews stating that your friends can take the role of NPC wingmen at any time. During the course of development, that plan has been scaled back considerably.

But these changes were apparently not widely known, as some players watching the most recent stream from the game’s developers are just now realizing. What some backers thought would be full-scale co-op gameplay in Squadron 42 will actually be limited to post-campaign co-op missions.

It’s important to note, of course, that this is not the most MMO-intensive part of the game anyway, but it is walking back one of the features into a more manageable form. The debate continues over the precise meaning of “drop-in/drop-out co-op.” While the original thread has been locked (at the OP’s request), conversation continues on the game’s Reddit page regarding the feature.

Source: Forums, Reddit
07/31/2015 2:38:21 PM EDT: We have rewritten the headline and middle section of this article to better reflect the chronology of the debate.
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giraffeknights
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giraffeknights

rioinsignia Saerain whatever your preference, it was a game feature during kickstarter. That you could drop in and take over as one of the wingman. They even stated that someone could drop in as an enemy similar to the PVP in Dark Souls.

Either way. It was stated as a feature.

HOWEVER. After watching the episode in question. I don’t think they were walking back the feature. I think that drop-in co-op will exist. I think they were answering the question “will there be a co-op campaign”. No, that was never promised. Just co-op play. Which only works on missions that have wing-men. If you are behind enemy lines with no support, you wouldn’t be able to have a friend help.

At least I hope that’s how it is.

Vikingr
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Vikingr

dsmart3000ad 
Here’s more you’d call “bullshit”, no doubt. A user experience in Line of Defense. Funny stuff!

rioinsignia
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rioinsignia

Pesko william0532 Totally agree.  Derek has done more harm than good when it comes to wanting to voice criticisms.  It’s just that his narcissism and arrogance prevents him from seeing that.  The same goes for the likes of JCRG99 / Manzes who “think” they are contributing some kind of “balance” to the discussions.  When in actual fact they aren’t contributing anything of worth, and are nothing more than parasites feeding off whatever carnage they can cause with their self defined righteous crusades.  All under the guise of highlighting “concerns”.
Meanwhile people with legitimate concerns who aren’t trying to troll run the risk of being generalised as being the same kind of parasites as the above individuals.

rioinsignia
Guest
rioinsignia

amkosh They didn’t “cut it” from SQ42 per se.  Only from the story driven campaign apparently.  There’s still misssions inside SQ42 that are co-op.

amkosh
Guest
amkosh

SQ42 is the only reason I backed SC.  I don’t really care much about this particular feature, but it does worry me if they’re gonna cut more from it.  I hope not.

cursedseishi
Guest
cursedseishi

Wow… Should we change the DS summon from “Derek Smart x3” to “Post an article on Star Citizen”, specially on MOP?
I’m remembering something about Derek saying he made his last post here in the foreseeable future… He must have an extreme case of near-sightedness then.

Pesko
Guest
Pesko

william0532 You’re right, Derek Smart’s ridiculousness makes it hard to want to sound anything like him and make factual criticisms. Derek Smart has actually been the worst thing for ensuring accountability of the Star Citizen project, and has done nothing to advance its cause.

I would be one who, after watching the early videos and reading the early materials, would have reasonably thought that drop-in multiplayer in someone’s Squadron 42 campaign would have been possible.  I dislike how Campaign modes have become more of a solely single-player affair, and I thought this would have allowed some flexibility in that aspect.

But seriously…. Fuck off, Derek Smart. Your continued noise regarding this project is distracting from those of us who actually want it to succeed and have valid points to make.

theeknighthood
Guest
theeknighthood

Won’t lose any sleep over this, hopefully SQ42 will be an even better more immersive experience because of it.
I mean there is an ENTIRE persistent universe on the way to play co-op with…

Ggamer
Guest
Ggamer

dsmart3000ad Vikingr EricCartmanboy Oooh a blog post again? Powerful stuff that…. wait that actually does sweet fa and no one of importance actually cares about ;)
I remember something about ‘burning things down’ and an expensive article being taken out…. all threats and hot empty air :)
The usual from you then eh?

Ggamer
Guest
Ggamer

dsmart3000ad Scarecrowe william0532 Smart do one, your vitriol and hatred for the competition is starting get boring now. You’re full of threats and hot air. Wasn’t one of your ‘blogs’ supposed to burn everything to the ground?
YOu’re a very sad individual who is trying to advertise your broken and buggy piece of rubbish whilst trashing someone else’s project.
The fact you are know bitching about an article done on your trashy project which is overly negative is amusing. They have only done what you have but with actual research they can back up.
The backlash in the forums on steam against you is most amusing – the fact you’re banning people who are overly negative on there is amusing especially with your verbal diarrhoea against SC when they refunded your money ;)
A massive hypocrite who for the good of the gaming community should be removed from anything to do with gaming as soon as possible.

GoJammit
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GoJammit

Given who posted this I think there is only one possible response.

dsmart3000ad
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dsmart3000ad

Scarecrowe william0532 Yeah, that came from me actually :p

foofad
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foofad

dsmart3000ad rioinsignia Saerain So when you inevitably backtrack on the features promised in your own game, are you gonna be so harsh on yourself?

Pesko
Guest
Pesko

dsmart3000ad rioinsignia Saerain Don’t you have your OWN game you should be working on more? Why are you so fixated on another developer’s game so much?

This is where your game was a few months ago. How’s it going now?

Scarecrowe
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Scarecrowe

william0532
Nicely sourced, thanks for the info.

Armsman
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Armsman

dsmart3000ad The level of hypocrisy here is amazing. You seem to be very good at trash talking other projects, while blatantly ignoring problems brought to light by those who try your game; and instead trying to claim it’s either PEBKAC or somehow the person’ PC is to blame. It’s NEVER an issue with your code (Even though there are PLENTY of examples that show at best your netcode needs a lot of work or at worst you’re just a plain incompetent developer..

Hanthos
Guest
Hanthos

dsmart3000ad Stop typing and start coding. Otherwise, you’re just the washed up, has-been bullshit artist and agitator that we already know that you are. Either bring something of substance to the table, or stop posting. You’re wasting everyone’s time.

ManastuUtakata
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ManastuUtakata

deleted_72526048_Viscereality 
Edit/Note: The poster was referring this to another DanceStudio, before deleting his or her own post for reasons unknown.

Hanthos
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Hanthos

I’ll take that as you admitting the first comment was hyperbole.

dsmart3000ad
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dsmart3000ad

Estranged dsmart3000ad Materix uglita Yes – that’s why most have likened it to a ponzi-like scheme.

By year end, my guess is that more people would have left, the teams would have be reduced – thus impacting the project even more.

This makes me so mad. They had $85m (!!!!) and which could have built two AAA games within the four years they’ve had.  Yet, CR pissed it all away through the increased scope and terrible project management.

Darkwalker75
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Darkwalker75

dsmart3000ad Vikingr EricCartmanboy 
Ever hear the expression “Actions Speak Louder Than Words”?

What’s in the dev blog will not mean diddly squat if its not consistent with what people get ingame, in the forms of content, gameplay and playability.

You have also been an extremely outspoken opponent of Chris Roberts, CIG and SC, for no other reason than because he is capable of doing something you apparently could not.
Your blogs about SC smack of nothing but absolute and total jealousy of CR and his work both professional and personal.

If you, instead of spending your time and energy on trash talking others and their work, did like Roberts and listened to criticism, feedback and were willing to see and admit when you were mistaken and correct those mistakes, then I honestly believe you could make good games.

But if you are going to continue to do as you have until now, making games that have poor gameplay and content at best, be practically unplayable and on top of that trash talk the work of someone who has been and are making groundbreaking games. then don’t expect anyone but the most gullible, narrow minded and presumptuous people to listen to you prattle.

I’m just calling it as I see it, and you can contradicting and deny everything I have said all you like, the only way I will change my standpoint is if you can show me change through actions rather than words.

Estranged
Guest
Estranged

dsmart3000ad Estranged Materix uglita

Ahhh, well, I was close!  LOL  

Seriously though, can you imagine having to run this monster on 1 million monthly revenue with a “small” cash reserve?  Just selling more ships to extend the process feels like a ponzi scheme. That is the best description I have, because there has been nothing like it in the modern business world.

dsmart3000ad
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dsmart3000ad

Vikingr EricCartmanboy It’s bullshit. And I’m writing a blog post right now for release next week that’s going to trash that click-bait bullshit.

Here are the facts about the game, from yesterday’s dev blog following the latest release. 

http://lodmmo.com/15-07-31-state-of-play/

rioinsignia
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rioinsignia

EatCandy When did it become ok for gamers to use hyperbole and lies to make a point? Co-op is still part of SQ42.  That was touted on the KS campaign, and is still the case now.   YOU just don’t consider to be because you think SQ42 only comprises of the campaign and nothing else.  Which, is in fact incorrect.   SQ42 isn’t just the campaign, it’s the missions too.

rioinsignia
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rioinsignia

dsmart3000ad  Pmsl, so the “netcode still sux” does it?  How very hip of you to use the word “Sux”….that must mean you are “down with the youngsters” does it?   Lol.  
I note that you seem to enjoy ripping into Star Citizen, even though it’s in an Alpha stage, and yet, the moment a German magazine “previews” your “Early Access” game and gives it a bad review, you scream blue murder and ban the magazine from your game…..the following are YOUR own words:
“The simple fact is that “Ben” was being disingenuous. And writing a
“review” based on an Early Access game that’s months from completion, is
pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. And the fact that, mere days later, we find out who
“Ben” is, confirms my initial suspicion that his intentions were not
designed to seek help or assistance. They were designed to be an attack
on us, and the game, for page hits.
#3″
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/437475/page/1
So it’s perfectly ok for YOU to rip into Star Citizen in an Alpha stage, but not ok for someone to rip into your game when it’s in “Early Access” stage.  At the same time, you scream blue murder about being banned and refunded by CIG, but you feel you are perfectly within your rights to ban a magazine because it was being “disingenuous”?  
Is that right?  Really?

Do I really need to spell out how much you are coming across as a complete hypocrit?

dsmart3000ad
Guest
dsmart3000ad

Estranged Materix uglita

That estimate sounds about right; but in my 2nd blog, from my sources, I came out at about $12m left, and around $3m / month burn rate. Now they’re making around $1m per month and dropping.

And the June/July numbers are already out. See below.

Here is the problem now. They’ve spent the money, have 900K backers, and no room to grow outside of those backers. Why? Because most of them are waiting for what they paid for and aren’t likely to keep pumping in money as seen in the previous numbers.

The FPS module isn’t going to do anything substantial since it is stand-alone and still not tied to any “game”. They’re not going to see much traction from that, other that more “stuff” to show.

They will probably show multi-crew as well; same thing there – it’s not a “game”

And yes, they’re looking to sell more ships at gamescon because that’s pretty much the only way they have not to raise money.

Here is the latest funding analysis screencap from their website yesterday.

Vikingr
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Vikingr

EricCartmanboy 
Yeah, I saw that video review from the german magazine Gamestar. WoW, is that game buggy! And customer support is unfriendly too, as they showed.

Vikingr
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Vikingr

william0532 dsmart3000ad 
Yeah, but he said “sux”, not “sucky”. I think he was talking about his car – SUX 3000 AD. ;)

Estranged
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Estranged

dsmart3000ad Estranged Materix uglita I think you are right, just doing a little hypothetical number crunching.  They need to produce quickly, very quickly.

Estranged
Guest
Estranged

Materix Estranged dsmart3000ad uglita

I looked at their stretch goals and the promises made within said goals.  

Lots of promises to upgrade studios, create them, etc.  

Taking them on their word, in that they ramped up according to money taken in…

They pulled in about 8m in their first year. Remember to deduct advertising and KS fees on that first 2 million or so…

That 8 was spent as soon as it hit their accounts.  Why?  Because they started thinking big quickly and had to justify the donations.

They pulled in 30m during the next year.  With the ramp up on offices, ships, etc.  I say 80% of that was spent.  Also 30m more during the following year (90% spent). Without knowing their donation level before hand, I find it interesting that my estimates for expenses were about 30 million.  They stopped creating stretch goals, because they just couldn’t keep up with the promises.  That lets me know they are barely breaking even in that period of time.  They had to slow down their income because the stretch goals were growing into a monolith.  Catch 22.  

Heck, they have had around 2 million in just credit card fees.  

With the 17 million left in donations (all spent) and the decline in said donations…

5-10 million is left.  With expenses running about 2.5m a month and donations not keeping pace, this is an issue.  They are under tremendous pressure to produce this FPS module.

PaganRites
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PaganRites

Saerain More made up SC drama.  Anyone who backed the game knew S42 was basically the single player storyline.

william0532
Guest
william0532

dsmart3000ad rioinsignia Saerain

I didn’t think there would be a response. Personally I believe Mr. Smart as been an opponent of this game from the get go.

Flaking off a few dollars like he did, is the same as your buddy saying “I ain’t racist, but”…

It was just a way to justify getting ready to say some stupid or negative stuff.

Hanthos
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Hanthos

As it’s still in production, I find myself trying to find where your question is?

wolfyseyes
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wolfyseyes

To be fair, if people are going to bring up Roberts’ track record, then the same will be brought up of Smart’s.

william0532
Guest
william0532

dsmart3000ad rioinsignia Saerain

How “sucky” can the netcode be? Arena Commander supports sixteen players now. Star marine supports more and is coming out near gamescom.  They are demoing large scale multiplayer maps in six days…

Seems like the netcode is making leaps and bounds.

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

JohnT_NC Vikingr Another Manzes sockpuppet banned. Unfortunately, I’ve no doubt he’ll be back.

EricCartmanboy
Guest
EricCartmanboy

@dsmart3000ad hey Smarty, you’re not even a SC backer, why don’t you just crawl back under your troll bridge and write some code for your delayed early access game?. Did you figure out the ominous “German drivers” problem already? X,-D Your game preview is really going places dude! In case you haven’t watched, I can recommend this, subtitles included.

william0532
Guest
william0532

Armsman Well, I could care less if Derek Smart is eating babies or bringing upon the apocalypse. However, how anyone could have thought that co-op was a thing, well let me help you out.

The
project also includes Squadron 42, a single player campaign that takes place
within the Star Citizen universe. Able to be played off-line or with
friends, you essentially sign up to fly for the UEE fleet, manning the
front lines, protecting settlements from Vanduul warbands. If you prove
yourself, you might get asked to join the legendary 42nd Squadron. Set up like
the French Foreign Legion, they can always be found in the toughest war zones
and always manage to come out on top. Once you complete your tour however, you
re-enter the persistent Star Citizen universe with some money in your pocket
and Citizenship to find your way.
Source:
Initial crowdfunding https://web.archive.org/web/20121111102444/http:/www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen-project/
You have
exactly that Wing Commander experience with the added bonus of some multiplayer
and your friends being able to sort of co-op play with you as
wingmen when you fly your missions.
Source:intitial
pitch video,, 3:35-3:45
Single player / campaign will be structured like a wing
commander in that’s its a progression on branching missions – win you go on the
good path, bad you go down the bad path – there’s usually a few opportunities
to recover from a bad path before its too late. This will be playable as simple
[sic] player or with your friends in drop in / drop put co-op
playing wingmen.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/12grru/i_am_chris_roberts_creator_of_wing_commander/c6v3eeqduring
the initial crowdfunding campaign
The
advantage of this system is that is allows you to tailor your experience
towards your preference – solo, co-op or full PvP. It also doesn’t partition
you into different, parallel versions of the Star Citizen universe as everyone
is kept on the persistent server. Because our battle or orbit / space instances
are temporary, you’re never stuck with one group over the long term and due to
our heavy emphasis on friends and co-op, there will always be room for your
friends to join you on your adventure; whether it’s against other players or NPCs.
The same
instance system underpins the single player Squadron 42. If you’re playing
off-line, your computer will be acting as the server and client, there will be
no opportunities for friends to join and everyone will be an NPC. But
if you play Squadron 42 through the Galaxy Server, even though your missions
and space areas are pre-determined (you don’t get to pick where in the galaxy
you are flying if you’re in the military) we will allow your friends to drop in
/ drop out to take over NPC wingmen and if you want extra skill
ranking you can allow other players to drop in and take over enemy ace
characters. This system is pretty similar to the Demon’s Souls setup
where people could drop in as a Blue Phantom to help you kill a boss monster or
fight off another invading player, or you could drop in as a Black Phantom to
someone else’s world and try and kill them for XP and other gamerewards.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12770-Chris-Roberts-On-Multiplayer-Single-Player-And-Instancing

Rumm
Guest
Rumm

dorn2 Co-op in single player is what matters? I had the wrong idea about this game the whole time! 
A 2 word blurb in their original KS is causing all this fuss, when all their saying is that Co-op will be limited. We don’t know how, when, with who, where, why. It’s just a bunch of rabble rousing, spurred on reddit, a bastion of trolls, and the appearance of the king of asshattery himself.

Armsman
Guest
Armsman

From the MOP article:
 “t’s important to note, of course, that this is not the most MMO-intensive part of the game anyway”

Um Squadron 42 HAS ALWAYS been billed as the “Single Player (like Wing Commander) Campaign” in SC from DAY ONE. IIn fact in the original KS – the ‘MMO Portion’ (IE the persistent universe) WAS A STRETCH GOAL. I don’t see how MOP can claim CIG is (again from the article):

“…walking back one of the features into a more manageable form”

because at the time they never explicitly stated in any detail during the KS up until today how wingman co-op would work in the single player SQ42 campaign; lor further claim ‘not the most MMO intensive part of the game as SQ42 was NEVER billed to have any MMO component (and no, two to three players in a co-op mission – which was what was billed – could never be equated with the term MMO as I don’t think anyone considers 2-3 players ‘Massive Multiplayer” in any sense. 

I guess MoP couldn’t find another gem from Derek Smart to play up this week, so we get this instead.

EricCartmanboy
Guest
EricCartmanboy

don’t argue with the Internet Warlord / alt / minion

dsmart3000ad
Guest
dsmart3000ad

rioinsignia Saerain You are 100% right. However, they should’ve thought of that before promising it; then backtracking three years later when they realized they couldn’t actually do it, or in a reasonable time frame.

The net code sux still. And since it’s shared with all the modules, this is hardly surprising that they would remove co-op (which implies multiplayer) from SQ42

dsmart3000ad
Guest
dsmart3000ad

william0532 LordOfBread Yes, it’s bullshit. They know it, we know it. But that’s how disinformation works.

EricCartmanboy
Guest
EricCartmanboy

you so funny, you good comedian

dsmart3000ad
Guest
dsmart3000ad

Estranged Materix dsmart3000ad uglita Their funding fell off a cliff in June and I wrote about that over here, explaining why they don’t have much longer to go with this project

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sn49nk

dsmart3000ad
Guest
dsmart3000ad

Materix dsmart3000ad Estranged uglita Opinions don’t need proof.

dsmart3000ad
Guest
dsmart3000ad

Estranged dsmart3000ad uglita Materix That was the intent. Sadly most of it got lost in translation when people started a) making it about me b) ignoring the premise behind my writing the piece.

And it still stands that – to date – I am the only person on the planet, so has even attempted a game of this scope, and actually did it to any meaningful extent.

dsmart3000ad
Guest
dsmart3000ad

Estranged dsmart3000ad CharcoalCrow Yes. it is as convoluted as the development itself.

EricCartmanboy
Guest
EricCartmanboy

old news, in fact no news at all. Shart had another troll article ready, he probably thinks we’re all too stupid to notice these little “coincidences”. He should finish his trashcan game that’s 7 months delayed already, in development for 5 years with a budget of 12 million Vietnamese Dong and looks like a trainwreck even for 90ies standards.

Hanthos
Guest
Hanthos

rioinsignia Saerain  I won’t lie, I’m a little bummed as I had wanted to have my friends help as well as me be able to help out friends who come in late to the game. It would be nice to fly with friends that haven’t caught up yet and be a part of their journey.

But I’m only a little bummed. It’s not the end of the Verse and I’m not taking stock in Kleenex and Imodium over it. No DS convert today!

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