Massively OP Podcast Episode 55: Black Friday fallout

As if there was anything else we’d be talking about this week? Co-hosts Justin and Bree sort through the bombshells of both EverQuest Next and WildStar from last Friday, looking for reasons, effects, and silver linings in all of it. Will there be tears, defiance, or hope? Tune in!

It’s the Massively OP Podcast, an action-packed hour of news, tales, opinions, and gamer emails! And remember, if you’d like to send in your own letter to the show, use the “Tips” button in the top-right corner of the site to do so.

Show notes:

  • 00:00 – Introduction
  • 02:15 – WildStar’s studio gets gutted, China release cancelled
  • 14:40 – Is WildStar salvagable?
  • 21:15 – EverQuest Next is shelved
  • 31:11 – The state of the MMO industry
  • 42:16 – Are there ever going to be more major PvE MMOs?
  • 47:11 – EQN’s cancellation won’t make much of a difference
  • 49:30 – EverQuest franchise’s future?
  • 57:39 – Are there any pure MMO companies left?

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20 Comments on "Massively OP Podcast Episode 55: Black Friday fallout"

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N3rdygam3r666
Guest
N3rdygam3r666

I finally got to listen to the podcast yesterday. I came away from it feeling like Bree and Justin will never change and will be hopelessly stuck in the past. And, that is not a good sign. I do realize that the podcast was about the closure of EQN. But, the constant drum beat of “I WANT EQ1 BACK.” is getting old. 

You both need to take off your rose tinted glasses and get your heads out of living in an imagined nostalgia. What I don’t see here are two people who are evolving with the genre. I see two people who have fallen into the trap of becoming jaded because they can’t get over their own idea of what an MMO should be. 

You constantly harped over no up and coming triple AAA games, but what you were really saying is that there are no big western MMO games on the horizon. Yes, you mentioned the Asian market and BDO for a quick minute, but, all in all, you just came off extremely biased in favor of western MMO developers. Your general attitude felt like, “Well, if anit coming from the west, it’ll probably suck.”

Also, the fact that you didn’t spend any time at all discussing the present day effect of BDO on the genre made me realize that you both really aren’t in the loop. For all of Bree’s harping on sandbox games, she doesn’t even talk about BDO. 

Yep. Two people who are supposed to be in love with and passionate about this genre just come off jaded and sound like two people stuck in the past.

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

Aenashi Heya Aenashi. It’s meant to be simultaneously, but apparently Apple is having problems with iTunes feeds — Syppi  is putting in a tech request today. Thanks for the heads up!
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7493917

bargamer
Guest
bargamer

flatline4400 … let it get excited? XD

I laughed so hard, I started choking, when he said that Epic Fail. Please don’t sleep for 24 hours the night before the podcast, Justin! I need more hilarity like this!

TomTurtle
Guest
TomTurtle

Thanks for the podcast. I think this was one of the better ones as the interweaving of topics and e-mail questions/comments worked really well. I know you can’t always work it out that way, but it was nice regardless. Also, I appreciate merging the topics with the timestamps.

I’m worried for the MMO genre for myself because admittedly I’ve become a bit spoiled by the quality of titles like WoW and GW2. It’s difficult to get into smaller titles since they often don’t have that level of polish. Buuuut, at the same time I think to the larger titles in the past few years that have eschewed healer and support roles, and with how I’m sick of that absence, I’d be okay with some smaller developers if they can bring those roles back instead. (I’m undecided if I’d want any of them trying action combat healing as I still favor healing health bars, as much as that’s been criticized and all.)

Syppi
Guest
Syppi

flatline4400 buuuuuuurn!

Syppi
Guest
Syppi

VasDrakken Wall of text crits you for 1,254.

Cramit
Guest
Cramit

Not to mention, on the same day, Pantheon showed some gameplay with devs doing combat and roaming.

Pantheon:RotF (Old school Inspired Game) > Everquest:Next (Wow-ification of the EQ IP)

Cramit
Guest
Cramit

To the whole pattern question, I think it comes to the watering down of the genre.  Honestly I think it is pretty obvious.  The last couple of AAA games that have come out and even been out for awhile are all extremely lackluster projects.  We have the old guard of gamers who want virtual worlds and the current stock of devs have made it blatantly apparent that they have NO IDEA how to make virtual worlds.  Then you have the newer generation that is finally getting tired of game jumping and have no idea what mechanics will keep them.  All they know is they want it as casual as possible but unfortunately that doesn’t really increase the longevity of the games. 

End all be all, the genre isn’t dieing or anything but I think most of the devs/publishers don’t understand how to make games to keep people playing and gamers don’t realize what they want/need.

VasDrakken
Guest
VasDrakken

soe was funded by Emily Domino Taylor, she funded several studios, and the studios would come up with these really cool concepts but many of them would change those plans some where along the execution of said plans. This happens because you build what you can build not necessary the castle in the clouds you want to build… but several developers were taking money from some where to ruin or delay titles so that other games launching would have less competition… Her social media got attacked because her fellow producers decided that if she was talking to people outside the studio either through focus testing or using the external testers she would email and invite to beta tests when the developers would say it was on track no bugs… most of us as external testers would simply play the game and report to the developers what we saw, maybe some people had different goals, but most of us would be confused when we would get what to focus on and it did not match what the developers would talk about in game. I was down at the landmark launch party hanging out with her because she is an old friend and I remember talking to one guy and he said if she said it then it will happen and it kinda got odd hanging out with her as people went home, pretty much I had to drive back up to los angles and was dealing with the age old game women tells guy you know I have a daughter right, and figuring out how to deal with it but things like having three daughters and a studio mixed with people who want to make fun games and people who want to just make money, tends to lead to people who take money from other sources to simply go to work and not work, because who ever is bribing you will simply get you job at another studio with someone else taking money… there is too much money in games at this point for dirty politics, and not as many developers who just want to make fun games. Games are really complex, which means hiring people who can build not just want to build them, but some where along the way but some how developers need to either totally self fund games and then realize that even that has downsides but if you are building someone else’s dreams you really should not attack the people who are funding the games and often have millions of their own money tied up in the game only to see it go up in smoke because some one throws a tantrum because they can not date their fellow producer because they are already married.. or simply not interested… but usually it is people wanting to get the credit for everyone’s work while not being willing to be just a manger making sure the work gets down but wanted to micromange everything then not understanding why the game fails… if the game could be built by one person you don’t need the people being micromanged… but you also need people who can speak up say it is not what they like but still follow the design documents set by the people doing the focus testing by the people paying for the game… not sure how it can be better but we need the developers who have child like enthusiasm but adult perspective to remember they are getting paid to build someone else’s dream, their dream may not make money since most people’s dream who make money find and audience who spends enough money and targets the game to make them happy…

Aenashi
Guest
Aenashi

when is this podcast going to show up on itunes?

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

hostagecat I hope so, anyway! :D

hostagecat
Guest
hostagecat

RANT BREE RANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE HATE IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE. Seriously though, great podcast, i think Bree is right about we are in a contraction phase, and then expansion in a few years.

paragonlostinspace
Guest
paragonlostinspace

N3rdygam3r666 paragonlostinspace Ugh, that could be a drag of drive depending on time of day and traffic. Unless things have gotten worse since the last time I was in the area. G’luck on the drive, hope it’s a painless one. The podcast episode should keep ya entertained! :)

flatline4400
Guest
flatline4400

Well, if there’s one thing we’ve learned, it’s that Justin will Walk… through the fire… and let it…

N3rdygam3r666
Guest
N3rdygam3r666

paragonlostinspace Saving this podcast for my drive home from SF to LA on Friday. Can’t wait to hear the rants!!

Esoteric Coyote
Guest
Esoteric Coyote

I don’t even look at new MMOs anymore.  I just ignore them till they release and they let other people try them.  I got into BDO after trying a guest pass and deciding 30 dollars was low enough for me to get enough entertainment even if I dumped it in a month.  Which I guess is a good thing, because I had no idea what I’m doing.  Like I noticed people in chat making fun of some scrub who didn’t know what a “node” was, and all I thought was… “WTF is a node?”  And which point I had to back track and connect from the starter town and the next 3 towns/cities.  I’ve also tamed two T2 horses, but as a tip… yeah don’t breed to your own horse… it costs 35k.  On the plus side you can afk fish and with connected nodes get some extra coin for your fishies.  That’s nice. So far the only flaw is I can’t trade to my husband… I picked up an axe and couldn’t give it to his barbarian.  Why?  Hell if I know. He wants to make a boat, and I’d love to trade some mats I have, but I can’t… that makes me sad.

paragonlostinspace
Guest
paragonlostinspace

Good podcast, listened to it last night while playing some GW2. Love when Bree gets going. hehe.

Reht
Guest
Reht

Veldan I would love to see him take the CU engine, once it’s fully optimized, etc. and then make a PVE MMO!

Veldan
Guest
Veldan

I saw Mark Jacobs say a few times that he had some good ideas for a PvE MMO, and that he’d like to make one some day. Obviously he’s rather busy atm, but a decade is a lot of time :)

MrPoolaty
Guest
MrPoolaty

That’s a term I used lol

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