Former UK Star Citizen player outlines the steps he took to get a refund from CIG

    
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If you’re dissatisfied with how Star Citizen is being managed to the point that you want a refund and you happen to live in the UK, then this Reddit post could be useful to you, as it outlines the 30 day-long process one former fan followed to get all of his money back from CIG from 2014 to 2017.

As one might expect from a 30-day process, it involves jumping through a series of legal hoops like sending a letter of intent, filing in small claims court, and elevating the matter to a County Court Judgment if CIG doesn’t respond to the initial small claims court case. The primary way to make this work is to ask for a refund due to CIG’s inability to deliver “something significant […] according to their publicly stated release dates, [a product] delivered to a poor quality, or both,” such as a working Persistent Universe or a release of Squadron 42, which is covered in the UK’s Consumer Rights Act 2015, Chapter 3 Digital Content, Section 34-40.

As proof of this process working, the Redditor included a picture of a judgment in default, awarding him an undisclosed sum of money. Whether this works every time or not is hard to say, of course, but there does appear to be a process to make this all happen.

source: Reddit, thanks to Quavers and Mazty for the tip!
Longtime MMORPG gamers will know that Star Citizen was originally Kickstarted for over $2M back in 2012 with a planned launch for 2014. As of 2021, it still lingers in an incomplete but playable alpha, having raised around $350M from gamers over years of continuing crowdfunding and sales of in-game ships and other assets. It is currently the highest-crowdfunded video game ever and has endured both indefatigable loyalty from advocates and immense skepticism from critics. A co-developed single-player title, Squadron 42, has also been repeatedly delayed.
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zz

People who don’t play the game really made hating star citizen their whole personality it’s pathetic. People claim they test out each patch yet they only look for visible difference right out of spawning and don’t even read patch notes. The same people who don’t play claim that there’s no content, well guess what? Other gameplay loops like salvage is just going to be SPACE TRUCKING or mining but with different steps. People really don’t check the game they are backing, if it makes you space travel everywhere you have to go or it has role-playing elements that you won’t like then the game isn’t for you. Star citizen is still the BEST space sim, best flight mechanics, most immersive game even if it’s decades from completion.

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alan grant

You could make an argument that Squadron 42 is so overdue that a refund is justified. For Squadron 42. A single player game that costs $45.

For all of these other disgruntled unhappy people, Star Citizen already does exist and it’s currently, as of right now, the best space sim on the market. If you don’t realize that you either haven’t looked at it in a long, long time or you don’t have a computer capable of playing it.

If you donated to this speculative project, that had disclaimers everywhere, and somehow now feel you overspent and are full of regret, it should be tough luck.

Manage your money better next time and don’t donate to crowdfunded projects.

The game is amazing, if you don’t agree, fine, stick to games that are fully released if you’re unwilling to face the possibility that this all wasn’t going to succeed.

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mazty

Hahahaha. Okay, sure thing. How is it that exactly, given that the AI doesn’t work, the desync makes it almost impossible to interact with other players and no gameplay loops are finished while most don’t even exist?

I’ll wait in my NMS outpost for your reply.

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alan grant

Desync exists, yep. In every online game. The AI does work, I guess not to your standards?

No gameplay loops? Seriously? You can do as much in this game, trading, mining, PVP, PVE missions as any space game on the market. What standard are you comparing it to? What game are you comparing it to?

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MothballShow

For anyone who backed prior to 3.x, would you say CIG changed the initial pitch and/or misled people on timelines (that CIG themselves set)?

That would certainly warrant justified refunds. You know, unless you want bad publicity and griefers (because they can’t get refunds) in your community.

How’s salvage, btw?

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alan grant

As I said initially, if you want a refund for the single player game, I’d say it’s justified to get your $45 dollars back.

In regard to Star Citizen itself, it was pitched as a highly speculative venture, a non-company of initially very few people pitching an evolutionary step in online gaming. If you didn’t even suspect that this could possibly take a long time, well I’d like you to donate to my kickstarter too.

Star Citizen has a generous refund policy. 30 days is more then you’ll find anywhere else. If you’re going to fold your arms and say YOU could have done it faster or they SHOULD have been done by now it comes across like you have no idea what is they’re creating. Right now, as in today, you can log in and see the most advanced space sim on the market. If it doesn’t include every feature you want, sorry I guess? We all wish it was faster to create this thing, but some responsibility falls on the consumer too. This isn’t a finished product. If you didn’t understand that, or still don’t, then you’re a victim of marketing I guess and should stick to products that are finished.

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MothballShow

And what would you say to those who backed early for the initial kickstarter who saw a drastic shift in scope and feature creep? Would you deny them refunds, or would you want disgruntled backers in your game no matter what? Because I’ve heard they add toxicity to a community and like to grief other players. Would you want that, or would you want CIG to give them refunds and wash their hands of it all?

Just asking as a finance/business/PR person.

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alan grant

I’d say they bought a valuable lesson in donating to a speculative venture. Crowdfunding is a silly way to spend your money in the best case scenario, and this wasn’t the best case.

But, the kind of person who would spend their time in a game they don’t enjoy with the sole purpose of upsetting the people who do?

Some people are simply toxic and I doubt a psychiatrist could change that. Would I deny them their refund? In a perfect world, I do wish they could get their money back and take their personalities with them, sure. From CIG’s perspective? Probably not.

In terms of from a business perspective, no other game in gaming history has had worse PR than Star Citizen. This entire discussion attests to that. And still the money rolls in, because for all their mistakes and faults, what they’ve already built is way ahead of any competition. Once this game works reliably, if that ever happens, they could drop their advertisement budget to zero.

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MothballShow

Bad PR doesn’t net revenue of $400M USD (mostly because the majority of CIG’s development has leaned heavily on their marketing arm). Though I will concede that the entire project is considered a joke outside of the bubble.

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alan grant

Yep, articles like this help to push that narrative along, but it’s getting less funny with every patch.

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MothballShow

For a variety of reasons.

1. It’s less funny because after a decade, there’s still no game.

2. After all this time, they are finally developing things other games have already accomplished.

3. They are still managing to create features and game modes no one asked for in the first place (Theaters of War) without focusing on the original goals.

4. See points 1-3 ad nauseum from 2012-2021.

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alan grant

Except there is a game. Have you ever tried it?

Tell me what this game is that already exists which does what Star Citizen does today. Elite and No Man’s Sky are not even close.

Features no one asked for? Wow, the horror.

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MothballShow

I don’t think you understand (and you are talking to a Golden Ticket Holder).

If Star Citizen stands up to those other games, then surely you’d have no problem with gaming outlets reviewing it as an actual game warts and all. Not falling back to “It’s only an alpha!” or other random excuses as to why the visionary, Chris Roberts, hasn’t been able to deliver anything in a final form in a decade.

And yes. Features no one asked for. Imagine you ordered a pepperoni pizza as advertized by a new restaurant, and from out of nowhere, the chef thought your money would be best spent sourcing blue cheese and pineapple to go on top while you waited a decade for your order to come to the table, delayed the meal well past its exected delivery time, and then sold future “concept” pizzas to pay for the features you didn’t want in the first place?

Yup. That’s Star Citizen in a nutshell.

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alan grant

A golden ticket holder who perhaps hasn’t looked at the game in years? It’s seriously come a long way in 2021.

I have no problem with people reviewing it honestly, I think that’s great even when they think it stinks. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

But the Pizza analogy is perfect, because that’s where this breaks down. You didn’t order a pizza. Or a TV, or any physical object that you can objectively look at and say: “This isn’t a Pizza, or this isn’t a TV”.

I never usually buy pre-release games. Hell, these days things are released so buggy even from AAA studios that I’ll usually give it a month for patches. Because all demands go out the window when you donate money to someone to create something to the best of their ability. None of us were ever guaranteed anything.

Still, it isn’t all gloom and doom! Come try what it is lately, I realize it isn’t everything everyone ever wanted, but was it ever going to be? Right now, it’s a ton of fun, but it isn’t for everyone. I sincerely hope you can get some value out of it too one day.

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MothballShow

So you’re admitting that SC (and SQ42 for that matter) were pre-orders?

Also, you’re assuming a lot about me, friend. I’ve kept up with, documented, and continue to test each major patch.

I wouldn’t call this released. I wouldn’t put it up against any other game. But hey, maybe CIG will listen to you, and call it a release, wash their hands of further development, cry havoc, and let slip the official reviews!

Compare what’s been unnecessarily added to the initial pitch. Then compare how much of the initial pitch they have delivered. It’s icing heavy, and cake sparse.

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alan grant

I asked you whether you tried it lately, you didn’t respond to that, so I assumed not. That wasn’t exactly a crazy leap.

Admitting they’re pre-orders? No, not even pre-orders. A pre-order usually has far better guarantees than a crowdfund, although nothing’s guaranteed. The fine print does matter. That’s why these lawsuits are going nowhere.

I didn’t call it released either. I said it was fun and better than anything else on the market. Let slip the reviews? Lol, I don’t think anyone has been holding back their opinions.

To each their own. I enjoy it, I think it’s exciting that we’re getting to see a game like this in our lifetimes since no AAA studio would attempt this much R&D. They aren’t, they haven’t. They recycle the same boring designs. Only in a crowd funded circus would a game like this ever even reach our PCs.

You can be a glass half empty guy, try and get it shut down, try to tell everyone how bad it is, I’ll just be playing it and having fun.

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MothballShow

I have played it. I plan on playing it this weekend as well, to see how those 30K errors are coming along.

You’re avoiding my question. I asked if you’d have a problem with official outlets reviewing SC as an official game, given all they’ve added that meets or surpasses other space games, or if you think they should still hide behind the “alpha” excuse.

I’m not talking about regular people expressing their opinions; I’m talking about official reviews.

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alan grant

I don’t know what point you think you’re making here.

Official sites should review the game as if it’s released, even though it isn’t? They aren’t “hiding” that it’s in alpha, it is an alpha. I don’t think anyone doesn’t understand that. I didn’t think I was avoiding a question… Whether it’s in alpha isn’t in question.

This is not what the developer considers the final product. End stop.

It can be in alpha and also simultaneously exist and be a fun game to play. You do realize these aren’t mutually exclusive concepts, yes?

You can call it whatever you want. You can play it this weekend, or not. You can get a job at Rock Paper Shotgun and write a 50 page dissertation on the state of the current alpha-game. These are just definitions, and if your argument is now just semantics what are we even talking about?

There are over 700 people at CIG working to get us this game to play. You want to trash their efforts and have them close their doors so you can get your money back. However much you spent, because you didn’t understand what you were contributing to, and because you think it’s evidently easy and should have been done by now. Well, I think that’s shortsighted and entitled, but as I said, you’re free to think it and to cry it from the rooftops to try your best to wreck this project for all of them, and for all of us.

Thankfully there are enough people who see the potential, and enjoy what exists, that it won’t matter.

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MothballShow

LOL. CIG’s upper management trashed their efforts well before any review or comment section did, by constantly refactoring, delaying, or removing their efforts from the roadmap.

Culpability is not on people who have opinions about a video game, it’s on management. Management that has previously set expectations, underdelivered, blown past deadlines, and blown through funding (to the point of needing outside investors).

The fault, dear alan, lies not with the gamers, but with CIG. If they have to close their doors, it won’t be because people had a negative view of the game (that’s been going on for a decade now). It’s because Chris, Erin, et al cannot make good on the checks they’ve written to their audience and investors over the years.

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alan grant

Well, yeah I agree if this thing sinks or swims it’s all on CIG, nothing the users do will make a difference at this point. My point was that they have the momentum now whether there are disgruntled users or not.

Look, I think a lot of this is in the eye of the beholder honestly. If you’re a person prone to positivity, you can view all of this for what it is, rather than what it isn’t. Some people enter this game and are blown away like a kid seeing Disney World for the first time. Others experience a lag spike, or a 30k, and lose all their patience.

All I know is that right now, this is the best space game ever created, warts and all. If somehow, someday, some other company comes along and makes something better, I’ll go play that instead.

But I’m not going to call over 700 people scammers, or incompetent, or do anything other then wish them all the luck in the world, because I what I think they’ve done, what they’re trying to do, is nothing short of miraculous.

And good luck to you as well, like I said earlier, I hope you eventually enjoy your time in the verse.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

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rePool

alan who blames others for upsetting him about things he doesn’t like says they’re not pre-orders.

CIG disagrees with you or something.

Mixed messaging is mixed messaging, but feel free to move goal posts around.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

I literally just played it. NMS is way better. Hell, I’d even take elite over this pile of garbage.

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TB_Infidel

“…what Star Citizen does today.” It does nothing. It doesn’t work. SC is years away from a full release etc.

At best it’s a failing tech demo hundreds of millions of dollars overspent and years late with a fanatical following of a few players who parrot what ever the CIG narrative is on that day. At worst, it is a scam.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

I played it the other day. Total garbage. I’m guessing you haven’t even touched it.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

I’m going to reply to this in 5 years with a GFY, LOL.

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TB_Infidel

Best space sim? It doesn’t work mate. Crash to desktop, sub 20fps….and constant lag/desync.
If that is your bar for best then prepare to blow your mind with any working space sim on the market!

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Nathan Aldana

“the best space sim on the market”

I dont even play space sims and I’m pretty sure elite dangerous is far more feature complete

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Ardra Diva

“Where have you gone, Derek Smart-san, gamer nation turns its lonely eyes to you… woo woo woo…”

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Joe Blobers

For information, Mazty is one of the active naysayer from the refund nest.

That’s not the first time forged or misleading information comes from this location.
Anyone remember the video of a 17K$ refund done live by a backer and validated as true by R/Refund mods? Proven forged less than a day after.

Answer from the mod when asked about why he did it: that was fun!

The proof bring by this guy can be done by anyone with a jpeg editor. Expect more refund from the same guy any time soon :)

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Boe_Jlobers

Nice try Joe. You know what they say,
“If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.”

Methinks your table is getting a little worn out lol.

In that reddit thread people went and searched the UK register where these complaints are publicly available. Here are the facts, if you are the sort who is interested in facts.

You can search the public records here, note it does cost £6:
https://search.trustonline.org.uk/Search/Business

Here is someone uploading the results after forking over the £6:
https://mega.nz/file/pJIgDB7R#H53TbUF-lfWOemPe6l-1TO1sX1ln7xnhEmS30ZuFWvc

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Boe_Jlobers

Sorry reposting with less links, I submitted another comment with direct links to the file.

Follow this link and see that someone did prove this was real, and if you care so much to attack someones character and call them a liar, maybe put your £6 where your mouth is 8)

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Joe Blobers

LOL this is the very link I used to get the so called ‘evidence’ of a refund.
That show zero refund but a file showing someone asking for…

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mazty

Follow it to the MEGA folder upload. All the proof you need. Or ask Chris, the legal department or customer support yourself. Or say 20 “Hail CIG” and buy another 400i.

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Joe Blobers

There are zero proof but jpges equivalent to the forged ones already done in the past, including video of fake refund.

The Earth is flat, I saw it on internet, jpeg prove it!

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MothballShow

Montoya! Is that you, baby? It’s the same talking points without the evidence to refute anything. So… yeah, just like Montoya or one of his simps.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

What’s funny, is from his side of the screen, Bloe probably thinks he’s a genius.

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Bruno Brito

For information, Mazty is one of the active naysayer from the refund nest.

Coming from you, that’s rich, considering you’re one of the biggest parasites in CR’s colon. If you’re saying that MOP is reporting fake information, grow a pair and say so.

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Sean Barfoot

For information, Joe Blober’s is a man who has constructed an entire online identity with the sole purpose of defending Star Citizen on every website that dares have a comment section.

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Roger Melly

I wonder how much they pay him to do that . It seems like a full time job so I hope he at least gets minimum wage .

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Bruno Brito

Nothing. he’s probably just a free mouthpiece. Fits the archetype.

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Joe Blobers

To make one single answer to guys comments about Joe, the difference is that I provide facts and different vision of those few around throwing words out of context with zero meaning, as word definition do have a purpose.

On top of that, factually the guy posting ‘refund’ IS an active member of the refundian nest, a place well known to throw BS over years, including many false, forged, anon and unverifiable ‘evidence’.
… And they will keep doing it, as Joe will keep giving another vision of SC development.

You are all welcome :)

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Bree Royce

Joe, you literally started this thread attacking our tipster’s credibility. You can’t be over here sulking that people turned your attack back on you. I usually let you talk until you start in on attacks because invariably everyone starts attacking you back and the comments stop being a debate and start being a shit-slinging contest. Can we please just not.

We had several writers look at these claims, and they look pretty legit to us, legit enough for us to cover. If you have actual evidence that we’re wrong, we’d love to hear it and we’ll amend our reporting. But “the person who sent it hangs out on a Reddit I don’t like” is not evidence. It’s ad hom.

Everyone else, please try to be constructive.

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Joe Blobers

What I say is that only a thorough search done by authorized people can valid true identify of someone claiming something or pretending something happened for real (a refund for instance but true for everything).

I am not such authority able to decipher the truth from the fake, nor any of the people involved in checking these claims… The fact you use “legit enough” say it all Bree…

This is your site so I let this thread for good. The debate is now open to the remaining constructive individual around :)

Thanks for transparency.

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mazty

Joe, answer this one question:

What counts as “proof” to you?

You’re not getting access to peoples bank accounts, so take off your tinfoil hat. You’re like a flat earther asking for a free ride into space because all the other proof “doesn’t count”.

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MothballShow

Joe, over the last year you have:
-Tried to denigrate CIG employees’ claims even when the sources were vetted
-Tried character assassination even when the person getting a refund provided proof of the process (and that’s evident here in the comment section of this article).

I just can’t see how you resolve blasting EA or other companies while defending a company that has raked in over $400M USD without any deliverables.

It’s almost like you’re anti-consumer because you are so invested – either monetarily or emotionally – that you can’t see the forest for the trees.

Which is weird, because I’d think most SC supporters would want like-minded people in the community, instead of shit-talking the people who feel trapped, and would otherwise grief or act out to ruin the game for others.

But you do you, gorg.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

I believe the term is “useful idiot”

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Bruno Brito

I’m aware.

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Roger Melly

Here in the UK we have quite extensive legislation to protect the consumer compared to the USA and other parts of the world . Once advertising standards an practice get involved and consumer watchdog groups in the media it could swiftly become a feeding frenzy which will have wider implications beyond the UK .

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TB_Infidel

Ah, the infamous Joe Blobers.
Well I have to say the arguments are hilarious as it has gone from “abusing the law”, “leave us alone”, and now to “IT’S FAKE”.

If in doubt just as CIG themselves on Spectrum. Ask how many refunds they have issued in the UK as a result of Consumer Rights Act 2015? Or are you too afraid that we might now see a tsunami of refunds coming to hit CIG in the face?

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Joe Blobers

Factually I never said anything about “abusing the law” or “leave us alone”, quite the opposite.
Each article showing true behavior of some, all from the same good old naysayer/hater nest give more consistence to their real goal: try desperately to create trouble at all cost.

About fake, forged and out of context words, there are so much already public comments and threads it is always a pleasure to pint point more of the same :)

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HolyAvengerOne

This is all 5-stars BS, y’all. From an external perspective looking in, that cesspool of sad lulz SC has been for so long and y’all seen throwing sh+t from, I’m glad I didn’t join in and wish not so many fellow mmorpgers had.

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Boe_Jlobers

SC has provided the best dollar to entertainment ratio for me of any video game of all time…..

I’ve spent nothing and I get so much fun out of watching year after year of “NO GUYS THE 2ND STAR SYSTEM WILL BE DONE NEXT QUARTER…. WAIT THE ANNOUNCEMENT ISN’T OVER! WE HAVE A NEW SPACESHIP TO SELL YOU TODAY”

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Nathan Aldana

this pretty much. I havent given Chris Roberts a dollar and I’ve gotten damn near a decade of pure laughs from this debacle.

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TB_Infidel

Ah, so CIGs stance is “Someone following consumer Law in the UK is a TROUBLE MAKER”.
Some solid 1984 shit right there.

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Joe Blobers

… Your are pretty new to the dance show from the refundian nest?

At no time I mean that someone following consumer law is creating any type trouble…
Following consumer law, IE opening a claim is easy. Everyone can do it… That does not translate at all in automatic positive result, whatever the claim.
Some around have master Jpegs editing… still consumers rights in UK or elsewhere remain untouched.

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TB_Infidel

And yet again you dodge the questions posed at you.

You said people following Consumer Law are trouble makers for CIG, therefore CIG want to operate outside the law, therefore BY YOUR LOGIC CIG want immunity to operate as a scam.

The law was followed, CIG can’t defend themselves, case closed.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

Yes, I’m sure it’s all a big conspiracy of “nests” and not just unhappy consumers. The whole concept of creating cute nicknames for naysayers is just a method of control. Same reason you hear the pubs constantly making things like “nasty pelosi” and “sleepy joe” up. Just a sociopathic instinct due to your sublimated aggression. The only fuel you know.

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rePool

So anyone who googles “who to refund star citizen” finds the Reddit refunds sub is suddenly a troll, Joe?

“Google Bestbuy refunds” or any other and people statistically look for the top searches, but you know that except you’re too busy with your attempts at character assassination.

Many people today are likely unaware that Joe tracks people and follows them like a stalker. He keeps a literal list and he hates it every time I post this.

https://archive.md/anE4Q

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rePool

I should have added this for others who don’t want to click the link for the stalking Joe does of “naysayers”

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mazty

Amazing 🤣

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mazty

It’s all real and two refunds in the UK seems to be significant, wouldn’t you say? Or does the cult not approve of such thinking?

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Joe Blobers

Try harder mazty.
CIG was supposed to be the company with jpegs only, you know the ones played by 30K individual backers on average daily, 100K during free events.

In fact the single fake Jpegs are the ones from the refundian nest :)

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TB_Infidel

How’s the Idris doing….on the BMM….or the Polaris, the Bengal etc etc?

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pirate_starbridge

The Idris was in game during the last patch’s community event, it was awesome. Not player flyable yet, but in game. I believe people were even able to break into it and fly it without any interior. In fact I think it’s in game even now if you piss off system security enough.

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TB_Infidel

LOL – you mean the absolutely gutted Idris that had a mess hall and some beds? The one which was somehow a HUGE backstep from what was shown in 2015?
You mean that Idris?

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

Jesus, what will you do if they ever release a png.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

A jpeg editor? Lets all take in for a moment that this naive fanboi just used the phrase “jpeg editor.” Do we really have any more questions about the type of support this game receives?

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Simon Cox

That’s some quality FUD there Joe.

Aldristavan
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Aldristavan

Getting a default judgment is the “easy” part.

Now try collecting on that judgment.

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TB_Infidel

I did. In the UK it’s easy to enforce and cripples credit rating so CIG ponied up before having to get in a firm to enforce it.

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Rndomuser

Glad he got the money back, but there should be better customer protection laws for that, such as everyone being entitled to get a refund at any time before release of final version of game or software, regardless if developer considers it as “donation” or anything like that. There would be much, much less incompetent developers trying to develop their own game after such laws, which is a good thing for everyone. As well as developers who abuse FOMO by releasing “limited time only” cosmetics before the game’s official release.

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DoomSayer

If this were the case then pretty much ALL Kickstarted and Early Access games would not exist going forward. Guess you only like playing games from big publishers like Call of Duty 40 and Diablo 10.

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MothballShow

That’s pretty black or white thinking, and excludes a number of very successful Kickstarters that didn’t wind up blowing their estimated delivery dates by more than half a decade.

However, the lack of a clear path to a refund for those older backers does in fact make a good case for games put out by publishers with oversight. So, good job I guess?

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Rndomuser

pretty much ALL Kickstarted and Early Access games would not exist

That is irrational nonsense. People would not ask for refund if they can see that the game is good even in early stages of development and has high chances of being released. I never asked for refund for such games, even when I had a chance to do so, doesn’t matter if it was Kickstarter or “early access” games on Steam and elsewhere. And everyone deserves to get a refund for a bad game or a game that is highly unlikely to be released due to incompetent developer who underestimated the complexity and cost of developing a game.

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hellodeliciousfriend

I’m not defending fucking Star Citizen, but if you could just ask for a refund whenever then Kickstarter literally could not exist. There just isn’t a practical mechanism for that because people have to be paid and that money doesn’t come back. At some point the funding has to be locked in.

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Boe_Jlobers

What kind of point is this. “”MAN WOULDNT YOU LOVE TO PLAY NEWER VERSIONS OF GAMES THAT SELL INCREDIBLY WELL AND ARE EXTREMELY FUN!! HUH HUUH GOT EM”

I would in fact love to play Diablo 10! I love Diablo 1, 2, and even 3.

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Sean Barfoot

A core part of the Star Citizen mythology is that there are no good video games and everything is a low effort sequel. It’s very grounded in the kind of discourse there was in 2012.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

Well that certainly explains why they keep referencing the Mayan calendar..

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DoomSayer

It’s not that they are bad games but the fact that those games aren’t really innovating. They are the EXACT same experience release after release. You want every game developer to just create the “safe” to market games that they can sell to the masses?

(Edited by mod to remove ad hom. I assure you, we care.)

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MothballShow

The development history of Freelancer is calling. That was CR’s last attempt at not playing it safe, and Microsoft relieved him of his duties and finished the game he couldn’t complete in time and on budget.

Now there’s no oversight, and we’re kind of seeing how that’s played out over the course of [checks notes] 9 years and counting.

So which is better? An existing franchise that keeps releasing the same format while iterating on the player experience, or a game that never releases?

BTW, Miyamoto’s well-trod quote doesn’t apply to the age of digital deliveries.

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Tee Parsley

Ten years and counting is legit to say. Certainly the Devs were happy to pretend in print that they’d been working on the game in 2011, when they felt that boosted their claims.

We know it’s BS, but they claimed it, so they have to own it.

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Joe Blobers

You missed one option (on purposes)… releasing the pledged ambitious game no publishers to ever developed because every M$ of revenues must translate in massive shareholder profit, not improved gamer experience or at best, marginal improvement over decades.

The best is that during development time, nothing stop anyone to get pick different choices, like getting same franchise every year and support others options.

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HolyAvengerOne

releasing the pledged ambitious game no publishers to ever developed because every M$ of revenues must translate in massive shareholder profit

And you missed the option that every M$ of revenues delivers absolutely sh+t to people, not what they backed, not in time, and only serves to further discredit an entire industry and business model.

SC is the greatest farce of modern times, an epic tale of Internet gaming meets crowdfunding and a sad reminder that human suck.

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MothballShow

Chris diverted funds from the budget to Freelancer to his movie projects, as detailed here. That’s definitely ambition, but not in the way you’re thinking of it.

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Felix Stone

In CIG’s most recent filing for their UK subsidiary they paid out $1 million in dividends to the shareholders (i.e. Roberts, his cronies and the Calders).

And that’s on top of $400 K / year (minimum, could be more) for Erin Robert, Chris’ brother, as the director of CIG UK (CIG UK has other directors too, so Erin is likely getting compensated for from other subsidiaries as well).

Not to mention Chris Roberts’ $47 million mansion that was almost certainly bought on backers’ funds.

You can be your ass Chris Roberts’ salary is way higher than the $400 K he pays his brother.

CIG is a corrupt organization.

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pirate_starbridge

It’s a pretty simple concept to not donate more $ than you can afford to lose, to any project… Beyond the initial $45, you were never buying, you were donating. I got “scammed” out of $400 for an indiegogo USB C portable screen that never materialized, yet the company is actively selling them via clone websites. Welp, my bad, I failed to understand the difference between purchasing and backing.
Plus, not everyone agrees with the “no deliverables” assessment. With SC I’ve already gotten more value back then I donated, by far. There’s no great way to predict how these things will go except to be okay with losing that money. I do see that it’s useless arguing with someone that can’t admit any fault in their own financial decisions.

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MothballShow

Ummm… do you not remember how this was sold?

One huge universe with VR! So for you to say that anyone buying in at the start and then complaining about it is wrong is rather (read: VERY) disingenuous.

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pirate_starbridge

I don’t understand why you can’t take it as a lesson learned and move on instead of creating this big vendetta? Clearly plenty of people are simultaneously excited and critical about the slow but steady pace of development. But it appears that those in your camp actively want the project to fail because you’re unsatisfied with the state of affairs. Why not focus on a hobby you like instead of one you hate?

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MothballShow

1. I don’t have a camp. I speak for myself.
2. When you buy into something and don’t get what was promised or projected, you don’t become a doormat (but way to go on the victim-blaming).
3. “Why not focus on a hobby you like instead of one you hate?” is major deflection and an insult to anyone who initially bought in and followed this thing to the farcical state it’s in now. It’s the equivalent of “Don’t worry your pretty little head about it” or “What’s done is done.”

But hey, you keep on defending bad ethics and practices from a company that has yet to deliver a fully functional game in a decade despite over $400M USD. Remember, that’s… somehow different from people who like EA games? Right? Somehow?

I’d love your explanation. But not for me – for anyone reading your comments and applying them to the project as a whole.

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Sean Barfoot

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/usgamers-top-100-games-of-the-decade-100-51

Here’s a list of 100 games released in the last decade. I’d consider many to be fantastic. Especially in the top 25. This narrative is completely false in an era when most people have backlogs of great games they know they’ll never have time to finish. I suggest you expand your horizons a little more.

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Boe_Jlobers

Nice name calling in the same sentence in which you try to complain about the mods and call me out.

Can you explain how each of the Diablo games is “EXACT same experience” ? Each game added a ton of new systems, massively changed the graphics, and sold orders of magnitude more than the last?

By your logic, can I not say “Lazy CIG, releasing the EXACT same experience that Elite Dangerous, No Mans Sky, and Space Engineers already made. All space games, all multiplayer, no vision”

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Joe Blobers

Don’t pretend you understand my logic lol… your single purposes is to say the opposite of my comment, this is the single logic :)

I already said numerous time that SC is not superior to others space games. It does offer a different experience. That is each ones choice to agree to crowdfunding model or alpha.
To each its own and this is totally fine to support or not while playing others games.

Of course Diablo 2 is adding stuff versus Diablo 1 like D3 do add difference vs D2. That’s not the point. This is all about publishers making billions $ each year since decades but not offering an experience like SC, despite being in Alpha.

I and most SC, ED, NMS backers would happily play ambitious space game offering SC scope… But we can’t because what is available does not even came close of 3.14 alpha.
I do have NMS, ED, ME.

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Boe_Jlobers

What does 3.14 alpha have? I see these generalities like “BIGGEST SCOPE EVER” but how so? It’s a 50 person per server space ship game, we have these games already. What does it do different?

Please frame it in things that currently exist in 3.14 or whatever patch you reference. I am fully aware that in the full game it will simulate every AI vending machine attendants in the universe or whatever promises CR made to get more money, that stuff doesn’t exist right now.

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alan grant

You come across like someone who has no idea what they’re talking about. Have you played 3.14?

No other game comes even close to what they’ve accomplished.

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MothballShow

Very true. Other games have actually released. And with less than $400M.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

I played it and have to disagree. It was a buggy pile of crap.

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Velvet Rope Assembly Club

no one understands your logic. which must make you a genius. certainly not the absolute opposite.

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D C

Oh, it is just a default judgment. Getting a default judgment works to get a refund from any company. It merely means CIG chose to not fight it

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Loopy

Does “just a default judgement” somehow invalidate the level of effort required to get a refund for a game?

It might just be a default judgement, but it most certainly isn’t straightforward or painless, especially given that majority of general consumers aren’t even aware of the process that’s involved.

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Roger Melly

Its different here in the UK . Once a small claims court reaches a judgement on consumer rights then its best just to pay up because if you don’t then its a bit like kicking a sleeping dragon . Once advertising standards and practice notice you and the numerous consumer watchdogs that exist in the UK then you are in for a very rough ride .

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Felix Stone

Hopefully, this will help kickstart more government scrutiny of CIG/Chris Roberts in countries that have the misfortune of not being “the land of the free”.

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Dug From The Earth

Seems like a scaled down miniaturization of the time its taking them to developer the game.

30 days, rather than 30 years.

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Yann van Sylphe

getting refund is the new end game!

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BalsBigBrother

It’s nice to see consumer law being used with the consumer getting a favourable outcome.

The UK has some pretty solid consumer laws that are actually designed to help said consumers rather than shield retailers or seller’s. I hope we continue to enjoy them going forward.

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D C

It’s just a default judgment because cig chose to not fight it

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Utakata

…and your commenting is on default? o.O

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BalsBigBrother

Not sure why you feel the need to point this out as if it changes anything.

Regardless the customer used their consumer protection and got their desired outcome so a win for them.

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Bruno Brito

And?

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Roger Melly

It might be like in the USA but they UK has extremely robust consumer protection laws . Small claims courts judgements can be contested by they you will face the full scrutiny of the watchdogs that police those consumer protection laws . CIG were wise not to fight it . I doubt this will be the last time they are taken to court like this in the UK though and I am sure it wont be long before their are wider questions being asked about how they obtain their funding and whether it breaks such legislation .

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Nathan Aldana

“see guys, if CIG had bothered fighting it they woulda crushed the consumer under their boothell. all hail corporations”