Betawatch: Star Citizen and the terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad week (June 15, 2018)

    
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It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of of theoretical games.

Oh, boy, Star Citizen. It’s been a week. First, the little boy who would never lose faith in you lost faith in you. In a film, this is the point when you check into rehab. In real life, this is the point when the game released a trailer for alpha 3.2 that contains things not actually in alpha 3.2. And then they released another concept ship you can buy which looks… let’s be kind and say oddly similar to a ship from EVE Online. A well-known one. EVE Online had some fun with that. In short, the game is going to move to Australia.

Other beta news? Sure, yeah, let’s go for it.

Did you have a good week? Would you like to end it by looking at the games currently in testing? Would you like to tell us if something is mislabeled down in the comments? All of these things are good and you should do them.

As always, we consider an MMO to be in open testing if it features free, public signups and will server wipe prior to launch. An MMO is marked in closed testing if it’s running a private test phase that cannot freely be accessed by the general public; it’s usually under NDA as well. Early access and crowdfunded MMOs whose tests we deem legitimate will be included. So-called “open beta” soft-launch MMOs with cash shops, no sign of launch in the west, or limited interest for our readers will not be listed; we also do not list expansions, with occasional exceptions.

AdventureQuest 3D: Open beta
Arcfall: Pre-alpha
Ashes of Creation: Backer alpha zero
Bless Online: Early access open beta
Boundless: Donor alpha
Camelot Unchained: Backer alpha, beta on July 4th
Children of Ur: Open alpha
Citadel: Forged with Fire: Early access
Crowfall: Backer pre-alpha
Cube World: Closed alpha
Dauntless: Open beta
Dark and Light: Early access
DayZ: Early access
Defiance 2050: Almost beta
Divergence Online: Alpha
Dual Universe: Pre-alpha
ECO: Early access
Edengrad: Early access
Eleven: Closed alpha
Ever, Jane: Open beta
Gloria Victis: Early access on Steam
Global Adventures: Closed beta
Just Survive: Paid early access
Legends of Aria: Closed beta, open beta in June
Life is Feudal: Early access
Line of Defense: Early access, removed from Steam
Occupy White Walls: Closed alpha
OrbusVR: Early access
Osiris: New Dawn: Early access
Pantheon: Backer pre-alpha
Pathfinder Online: Subscription “early enrollment”
PixARK: Early access
Project Genom: Closed alpha
Project Gorgon: Early access beta
Rend: Alpha testing
SamuTale: Closed alpha
Star Citizen: Backer alpha
Stash: Backer alpha
The Black Death: Early access alpha
The Repopulation: Early access alpha
TUG: Early access alpha, possibly abandoned
Valiance Online: Alpha
Wild Terra: Steam early access
Worlds Adrift: Early access

Yes, MMO gamers, you too can perform the unpaid quality-control work otherwise known as game testing! Check out Massively Overpowered’s Betawatch every week for a run-down of MMOs that are still on the road to reality.
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Godnaz

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Kevin McCaughey

Citizentologist fanbois are ruining gaming. I’m sick listening to their nonsense talk.

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ichi sakari

its not lockboxes, not crappy monetization, not spyware, not botters or hackers, not poor game design, gaming is being ruined, ruint I tells you, by people who support a specific developer

thanks Kevin, the most ridiculous thing anybody posted today gave me a great laugh – hyberbole is funny stuff

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ichi sakari

ps if Schlag could shop Joe’s head onto Bart’s that would be cool

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Joe Blobers

Beware… making cartoon joke or caricature of someone could inflate their egocentrism :)

For a public person, sometimes that’s all the reward they got by not being able to shine by their own professional prowess.

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Kevin McCaughey

Very funny :) I don’t take myself seriously so I am glad you don’t either ;)

creepywhistle
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creepywhistle

The Culling left early access October 5th 2017, then ceased development in December.
A friend of mine called it a “Of Mice and Men scam”, the ending of the story being a metaphor for game as well. The company tried to give a faint glimpse of false hope before shooting it in the back of the head.

Xaviant is stupid enough to start on The Culling 2. Ever want to see a ship sink in the ocean while on fire?

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Roger Melly

Star Citizen at this point should be offering refunds to anyone who requests them .

Legends of Aria needs both a world map ( or a cartography skill ) and a social panel so you can add friends .

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Joe Blobers

Roger Melly at this point should understand that CIG do have a robust roadmap with quaterly delivery, including new gameplay and + 21 ships by end of the year.

Things have never been better. Time to pledge :) And if you are still on the fence for any reason like Alpha or not yet release… just wait until it reach your expectation.

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Bruno Brito

Well, after “5 years” and 200 million bucks, it should have something.

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ichi sakari

ruiner

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Things have never been better. Time to pledge :)

I dare anyone to say that and try to keep a straight face.

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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

SC has “no commission” sales people.

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Loyal Patron
sizer99

They have to (with a straight face). Once you’ve dumped so much money into collecting beanie babies (aka ship jpegs), the only thing you can do, short of admitting what you’ve done was a bad sunk cost, is to keep trying to sell other people on how awesome it is. They know their sunk ‘investment’ is dependent on other people continuing to be suckers. The worse it’s doing the more they talk it up – till they reach their breaking point like Wii U owners.

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Roger Melly

Joe if your fellow investors are as happy as you are then what do you have to fear from CIG offering refunds to anyone that wants one ?

It would be the honest thing for them to do .

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Joe Blobers

Quote Roger Melly: ” fellow investors ”

I am not an investor. I donate an amount to help produce the project I want them to deliver. That is exactly what they are doing.

At the second I clicked on the pay button I consider my money is gone forever. For the best or the worst. Absolutely zero fear involved in that act as at no time, I will ever ask for a refund.

I think before giving cash to someone else… and know that whatever the project, it will almost surely never reach all my expectations at time of delivery.

Only a proven fraudulent and malicious project stamped by a Court as such would make me change that position. Not because some internet troll (not you) is spreading false prophecies of Doom once every quarter :)

CIG is in no way in that position, has never been and is now heading strongly in the other direction: Delivering the Best Damn Space Sim Ever (to the extend of each one expectation about specific game gameplay)

In short: Read the TOS + do not join any crowdfunding project if you can’t swallow those basics.
Wait for the project to be further advanced or released, then join by pledging or buy a product stamped as fully finished.

That would be the honest thing to do.

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Roger Melly

The Cambridge Dictionary definition on investment .

” the act of putting money, effort, time, etc. into something to make a profit or get an advantage ”

I would say arguably you are an investor given you are investing time or money in the game to get an advantage such as a head start or especially if you buy a ship .

A donation is usually something you give an organisation or business without any intent of reward or goods in return .I imagine people like yourself have given money in the hope they get a finished game ? After all this is not a charity is it ?

Crowdfunded Companies like any company have a duty to be honest with their backers and if development is way behind schedule then an honest company would at least give those who felt unhappy with how things are going the option of a refund .

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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Roger, thank you. Well done.

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Joe Blobers

Thanks Roger Melly for the Cambridge dictionnary definition… On their page, out of 10 examples… 10 point to Finance or $ profit:

* They have begun attracting investors, most notably big Japanese financial houses.
* The financial crash blackened the image of investment for many small investors.
* Stuttering productivity figures over the last two years have made the industry unattractive to investors.
* The company was set up to buy and sell shares on behalf of investors.

Following your wording, everything in our life is an investement, including taking a bath or eating.

I just explained, using the everyday meaning of words, what was pledges versus my perception of crowdfunding and why refund of any pledge is a no go.

Crowfunding is not an open space where you go in and out at your leisure, there are risks, one the most common one, way before any other, is delay. If you can’t swallow that just do not join any project.

Again, the project is clearly (you can disagree) going in the right direction and we are not at 5 years of release but closer from 1 and half or two max (SC Beta + SQ42).

Current Rodmap is limited at 4 consecutive quarters (till Q1 2019). Add three more patch till Q4 2019 and you cover SC and SQ42 scope, including most gameplay if not all. Except the 100 systems they could deliver (PG) but without the handcraft quality they put in every of their assets. If we got just 5 (with planets, moons, asteroids..) that will be already enough to get millions of players in instanced servers.

By that time, performance issue will be mostly behind us (Bind Culling was close to ready but they decided to merge it with OCS release in Q3 2018). Gameplay added like mining, salvaging, scanning, refueling will all have been tested, tweaked by Q1 2019.

When I say it is the right time for those accepting Alpha state to join now or by end of year, this is not a joke. This have a lot a benefit.
Two of them: test from inside a large project which is heading to Beta without the hassle of years of download and “drama”.

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Oleg Chebeneev

So it has been a horrible week for Star Citizen because someone made a post on reddit, SC released… let me quote Bree: “Georgeous trailer” for E3 and they also introduced cool new ship? Wow, those things really make it horrible TERRIBLE, NOGOOOOD week for SC /s

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Necromonger

They could mug your last dollar and you would still be clapping your hands wont you ?

The blind following the blind.

I gave up on this game 2 years ago and so did many others.

Development began in 2011 man…..its 2018 and a half…..

Thats 7.5 years and look what a mess this game is when you log in.
And release date ? pfew lad…….at this rate it takes another 8 years but we all know funds run dry as more and moer people start to wonder….

When ? when is SC going to be a solid game instead of a alpha build ?

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Oleg Chebeneev

If you gave up doesnt mean other people should. Im very happy with how SC is shaping out even if progress is slower then we want. Also 7.5 years is bullshit. It went on kickstarter 5.5 years ago and back then it didnt have many people working on it and it was planned to be nothing like it is now.

Id say it went into full production when it got a decent team and current scale vision, so only 4 years ago.

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

They had a whole bunch of contractors working on the game prior to bringing most of it in-house. So development started at the beginning of 2013, just because they changed the scale of their vision does not mean the old development doesn’t count anymore, that would be absurd.

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Oleg Chebeneev

First you say development started in 2011. A post later you say development started in 2013. You guys arent even trying

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

My stance has always been that development started as soon as the kickstarter was fully funded, so 2013. I don’t know where you think I’m saying 2011 because none of my posts here say anything of the sort, like seriously WTF are you on about?

Some people say 2011, some take Roberts at his word when he said he had been working on the game for 1 year prior to the kickstarter but I don’t.

You guys arent even trying

Well it’s a good thing I’m only speaking for myself then, isn’t it.

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Tee Parsley

I never take Roberts at his word on anything. Unless it’s something available to all to check out. History shows that that’s a good call.

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Bruno Brito

200 million.

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Lethality

Production didn’t begin until 2013, so, it’s really only been barely 5 years and remember they are developing tech from scratch to create not one but two triple-A games.

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Bruno Brito

it’s really only been barely 5 years

ha,

HAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

You mean that Engine they made from scratch? lol

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Lethality

((Deleted by mod. Please review the community commenting code.))

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Tizmah

Wow, nice cherry picking of your own.

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Ironic considering how often you lament about SC not being deliverable… ie

Time for a Lethality check….

Ultimately it looks like even with that in mind, they are unable to deliver more than about 50% of what is scheduled, or less.

With that in mind, and no sense of urgency shown by CIG, I think you can expect nothing less than perpetual development. The 10 year plan they talk about? It will be under development that entire time, and never truly release in its final form.

Sad to say :(

If that’s not cynical I don’t know what is.

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Joe Blobers

Cmdr_Cotic come on. Everyone can have instant of doubt… then grow up and manage to handle their uncontrollable fear.

Still some are stuck in their scam fantasy for years :)

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Joe, there’s plenty more where that came from if one cares to look, it’s a bit more than an instant of doubt. The last 6-9 months there has been plenty of comments along those lines. Just strikes me as a bit odd calling out people for being cynical while also being cynical about the very same thing…

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Lethality

Thank you for pointing out that I’m not a raving fanboy lapdog, like some \ around here assume I am. (btw, I am not sure how you found comments I thought were well-hidden on a secret area of an obscure website called Reddit).

I am and always have been overly critical of the project from a logistical point of view. I don’t hold back. But I also support every effort they have taken to make it. Because I am a *fan*.

((Edited by mod. Please review the community commenting code.))

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Thank you for pointing out that I’m not a raving fanboy lapdog, like some \ around here assume I am. (btw, I am not sure how you found comments I thought were well-hidden on a secret area of an obscure website called Reddit).

There you go once again, missing the point. It seems to be quite the issue with you :)

I am and always have been overly critical of the project from a logistical point of view. I don’t hold back. But I also support every effort they have taken to make it. Because I am a *fan*.

Why act so defensively about it then?

Around here, I’m not defending the project for that reason, though… I’m trying to squash the small-minded simpletons like yourself. You are the pathetic cancer that plagues fandom in gaming.

Haha, and on to the ad hominems we go, keep it up Lethality

You’re not here to be a fan of games any more this site produces content for fans of games. You’re here to tear them down.

Uh huh, which is why I send in tips for other games, discuss other games and play other games….

Truth hurt?

If there was any truth in any of your sourpuss ranting then I could give you an honest response, but alas there was none…

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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

This comes from a person that talks down to others, just because they enjoy games.

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Kevin McCaughey

You and Oleg are the proof that fanbois are ruining gaming.

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Joe Blobers

Quote Kevin: “You and Oleg are the proof that fanbois are ruining gaming”

I feel offended! :)

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Lethality

So which is it? I’m a fanboi or a hater? You and cmdr_crotchitch please have a discussion and get back to me.

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Oleg Chebeneev

And the award for the dumbest post of the month goes to… Kevin McCaughey. Congratulations, Kevin!

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Kevin McCaughey

Woohoo! Thanks – I never win anything! ;)

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Bruno Brito

Oleg, you should know by now that Massively is not the site to read if you are actually a fan of video games.

I’m sure your developer asskissing will get you far.

The majority of the staff and commenters here prefer to be cynical

Pot calling…yeah.

and find everything wrong with everything.

Because everything is the players fault, right?

So that’s why most of the posts are written with that spin at best, or with cherry-picked facts.

Look who’s talking.

Shame on them, but hey, what can you do.

if you don’t like it, get out. No one makes you come here, and honestly i may speak for a lot of people when i say, you won’t be missed.

I actually prefer the flat-out haters because at least they stand for something.

You prefer the flat-out haters because you’re one too. You pucker up to any developer issue and can’t sympathize with any gamers anywhere. You think the industry is favorable to gamers and not to the companies producing games. You’re not just completely obnoxious, you’re also malignant. Your ideals are like a cancer that consume anything that gamers fight for.

Sometimes, i try to give you the benefit of the doubt, but nowadays i’ll just concede you’re a complete moron.

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Roger Melly

Yeah its not the site if you are fanboy who just wants you gaming worldview reinforced by other fanboys but it is the site to come to if you are interested in mmo news and you are interested in articles written by people who approach these games with objectivity and scrutiny .

At least unlike mmorpg.com this site doesn’t have sponsored articles and contributors who seem to be favorably disposed to games that advertise on their site .

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Kickstarter Donor
Emmanuel Carabott

If you’re a fan of video games you need to strike a balance. You shouldnt be cynical and be completely inflexible, as in you shouldnt find everything wrong with everything to quote you. BUT you shouldnt accept everything either.

I personally dont see Massively doing anything wrong here. Do really believe being a fan of video games means letting developers cheat their players? because when you release a “georgeous trailer” label it alpha 3.2 teaser and its full of stuff thats definitely not going to be in alpha 3.2 thats what devs are doing.

Also if you introduce a cool new ship, sell it for $140 and copy an existent design from a different game its a big big problem, forget the ethics part of it, but what if I buy that ship, CCP sue and devs have to change the design because of that? what happens then? will cloud imperium refund everyone? will they just change the design and you’re stuck with it? What if CCP arent happy with a simple design change and are instead awarded millions by a jury which in turn drives cloud imperium bankrupt causing all backers to loose all their investment in the game just because someone didnt bother to come up with an original design? do you really think a lover of video games should let these things slide? wouldnt that invite developers to repeat this in the future? (path of least resistance, you can come up with more ship designs to sell if you dont bother coming up with original designs)

These are things that should never happen in a game’s lifetime much less both happening the same week. So no I dont agree with you that Massively are being somehow anti-video game by reporting this, both were wrong, both were anti-consumer as well as unethical. whats wrong with journalists / gamers pointing that out? Accountability makes sure developers stay within the rules and thats in everyone’s best interest including gamers who would love to see this game live to its full potential one day!

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Lethality

You’re 0 for 2. And *this* misinformation and/or stupidity is what I’m here to correct, not protect or defend the project itself.

The trailer was labeled that way by PC gamer, not CIG.

There’s no evidence whatsoever that the artist copied it at all. In fact, there’s plenty of evidence to the contrary if you watch the latest episode of Around the Verse, which literally shows how its concept design evolved from scratch across 3 different artists’ efforts, and talks about where the real inspiration originally came from.

((Edited by mod. Please review the community commenting code.))

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Kickstarter Donor
Emmanuel Carabott

forgetting for a second that pc gamer isnt the only one who labeled that video as alpha 3.2 teaser, the video itself ended with and I quote “Prepare for Alpha 3.2 Update coming soon” now sure you could argue that isnt specifically telling us what we just saw will be in Alpha 3.2 but it implies/suggests it. Keep in mind no one wants to get in trouble, so tricks like strongly implying something without actually saying it are a tool of the trade so to speak and its why we have situations like this. I mean even if this was mislabeled by pc gamer why do you think they went with that particular miss label, why not beta 1 teaser or full release teaser? if they miss labeled it it was because they feel “victim” to the same trailer implication this was from alpha 3.2 while at the same time the trailer retained that plausible deniability so to speak.

What do you mean there is no evidence that they copied the design at all? it looks almost identical, thats evidence in itself. And whats the evidence to the contrary? that a salvaging ship was inspired by a bike?
cause out of all the ships by drake industries a bike made the most sense for inspiration but lets give them the benefit of the doubt, lets say for some weird reason they thought it was a good idea to be inspired by a bike, at some point surely someone on the team pointed out hey this is kinda starting to look very close to the venture from Eve online should we like change it a little bit? Or do you really expect out of the people who work on star citizen not one of them was aware of eve online? Why didnt they? I am no lawyer but I am pretty sure in terms of copyright it doesnt matter if your design is identical to someone else’s because you accidentally came up with the same design even though never saw the original or because you copied it. In both cases you still infringe.

Looking at the main page right now all stories are positive accept for one. if we take the 2nd page that includes this post the biggest community engagement is not on this, 1 of 2 negative articles in this page. the most popular article was “WORLD OF WARCRAFT CLASSIC IS STILL UNDER DEVELOPMENT, WILL BEGIN WITH PATCH 1.12” comments there are a bit of mix bag. some positive some negative. seem more to me an example of people being passionate about video games not hating them.

Massively is not a game fan site. They cant really write articles about say star citizen and how great it is / will be. Its a news site. If star citizen releases a new beta 4 which includes say mining and they come up with some revolutionary way of implementing a gaming loop for it then sure i’d expect to see an article praising what great work they did and how it was worth the wait. What I wouldnt expect is for an article to come out today illustrating how good looking the game is when compared to most space sims, one coming out tomorrow praising its concept art and one next week saying how great the ships interfaces look because that would be out of character. It would seems like they’re a marketing machine for a specific game rather then news site and that would be bad!

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Lethality

((Deleted by mod. How many times do you need to be warned?))

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Kickstarter Donor
Emmanuel Carabott

Objective doesn’t mean taking sides, just a few days ago Bree herself was arguing with Derek Smart in defense of Star Citizen.

But here’s the thing you seem to have concluded, unless i am misunderstanding your point here, that Massively is writing more articles about star citizen simply because people like attacking it to drive views so to speak but what if the reason people are attacking it is because star citizen is giving them reason to and those reasons are news worthy hence sites like massively are writing about them.

Like it or not Star citizen is super controversial and until they either release or throw in the towel its impossible to say who is right or who is wrong in the whole debate.

Dont get me wrong I know what you’re saying and I agree us gamers like to go on crusades and sometimes the media tends to try and ride that wave. Bless online is a great example of this. If you never play the game and simply read about it you’d think its the worst game ever when in truth it isnt 1/2 as bad as its portrayed. For crying out loud I’ve seen streamers claim they’re getting 10 fps and thats after they uploaded play session on youtube in 1080/60 that were smooth as silk with may 10 seconds out of a 2hr video where they had some stuttering and I bet even those 10 seconds or so where more like 30-40fps then 10fps so I know what you’re saying but I disagree with your pointing the finger at massively. I actually think they’re pretty objective which is my this is my favorite mmo site.

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Lethality

((Deleted by mod. Give it a rest.))

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Kickstarter Donor
Emmanuel Carabott

L:ike I said, speaking in general I agree with you but speaking specifically about massively I dont. Again taking Bless Online as an example, no particular reason just because its the latest example that fits what we’re discussing. The title massivelyop when with “BLESS ONLINE STRUGGLES WITH DOWNTIME ON ITS FIRST DAY, OFFERS REFUNDS AND PLANS FOR THE FUTURE” totally fair. Some example for other publications/blogs/streamers: “Supporting Bless Online is Supporting the Death of the MMO”, “Bless Online – Is all the Hate Warranted? Is This MMORPG truly that bad?”, “Bless Online is an embarrassment to the MMORPG genre”

Like I already said, this is a news site, doesnt make sense to have articles aimed for fans, for starters that cant ever happen because in my experience fans tend to be territorial in the sense If I am a fan of guild wars 2 just to give an example I might be very critical of its direct competitors so It will be hard to frequent a site thats praising WoW et la even if they’re praising my game as well.

Once again Objective doesnt mean being positive. I dont expect anyone to write an article of how perfect Bless is and how its going to change the MMO genre for the better cause that wouldnt be true. Its true it has issues, its true it had a bad launch and its true it had translation issues. What I am expecting is sticking to the facts not using hyperbole just to get on the good books of the crusaders like others did.

For me MassivelyOP have always been objective, I dont recall a single article they wrote to get on a crusade bandwagon when one started rolling down the hill by gamers for some mysterious reason. It Didnt happen with bless, It didnt happen for any other MMO which had gamers go up in arms again. If you have examples of articles which were not fair please share cause I sure am not aware of any.

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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Maybe SC would have more positive converge, if it deserved it. Jus’ sayin’

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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Oh, piss off – hypocrite.

Yangers
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Kickstarter Donor
Yangers

To be fair, I’ve seen similar ships like that in various games and sci fi shows over the years. It’s not exactly original. I would be more surprised if the games didn’t have some similar ships every now and then.

Still all seems very sketchy, but meh, its not my money.

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Kickstarter Donor
Ken from Chicago

From WING COMMANDER: PRIVATEER 2: THE DARKENING from 1996 a Military Carrier:

privateer carrier.png
cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Because a banana totally looks like a cucumber…

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Joe Blobers

Quote: “cmdr-cotic”Because a banana totally looks like a cucumber…”

I don’t get it. Is the Vulture a banana and Venture a cucumber?

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Wilhelm Arcturus

This whole Vulture/Venture thing would have faded in a day or two except that a few people on /r/starcitizen cannot stop poking the bear, demanding the EVE players stop mocking their game (to the point of trying to get /r/eve banned ), which only encourages them. It is like they’ve never been to the internet before. And the memes keep on coming.

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Right, and /r/eve just want to shitpost for giggles.

I do find this a lot with the more rabid citizentologists, it’s like they refuse to see the humour in things and prefer to be offended and defensive instead. Maybe they’re scared that if they start laughing at Chris he’ll hissy fit off the stage and say he’s not making the game anymore…

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Joe Blobers

Wilhelm Arcturus mention: “a few people on /r/starcitizen cannot stop poking the bear”

Those few are just that…few. SC and EVE players at large don’t care about this crap.

Reddit SC is full of humour including backers joking about delays (heretics!!!)

I do not think there are more rabid citizentologists than they are few guys around being rabid Collapasetologists :)

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Loyal Patron
Schlag Sweetleaf

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