Global Chat: Is Ashes of Creation worth backing?

With all of the hullabaloo going on concerning Ashes of Creation and its Kickstarter campaign, a few bloggers are asking themselves whether or not this is an MMO worth backing, especially if they’ve been burned before by grand promises and poor execution.

“All of this adds up to an enticing package and ought to spark the embers of hope that maybe there will be something new under the sun when it comes to the fantasy MMORPG genre,” The Ancient Gaming Noob wrote. “So why am I not excited about this? Why isn’t this helping me shake off the MMO malaise?”

“I’m not on the hype train by a long shot. Not that I see anything particularly wrong with the game, it’s just way, way too early to even think about commenting on it,” Endgame Viable said.

“Am I going to pony up? Mmmm. Maybe,” mulls Inventory Full. “I’m still thinking about it, although, after reading the Kickstarter page, I’m actually less interested in the game than I was.”

Tales of the Aggronaut: Mixed feelings

“I want it to work well, because I would really love to see a game like The Secret World succeeding.  It did a lot of interesting things that no one else is still doing, and presented a game setting that is unique and interesting.  The big problem however is all of that interesting bits came in a package that never quite worked as well as I thought it should.”

Ravven: Preparing for Stormblood

“I do love this game, though. It gives you an immensity of things to do, a wonderful crafting system, and some of the best designed instances I’ve ever experienced. I would love to see a bit of the depth of (for example) Black Desert’s graphics, but even lacking that, it is a wonderful MMO. And I adore the sense of humour that pops up every now and then. It’s probably my all-time favourite… even if I have to re-learn everything each time I go back!”

Galactic Antics: A hairy situation

“The second unisex style is very reminiscent of a fine mop head just being splashed on a character’s head. So obviously you don’t need me to tell you what I’ve termed it. In terms of design it’s certainly the most… ‘interesting’… hairstyle to come to the game for a very long time, since depending on your character’s gender and body type it may look fine or it may make you look similar to a typical ’emo/goth’ youth.”

Ravalation: Ten years of LOTRO — A virtual history of Middle-earth

“The LOTRO of 2007 was a different LOTRO than it is now: It was more ‘hardcore’ in several ways. Classes that had a support role in group content (Guardian, Captain, Lore-master, and Minstrel) had no DPS mode (trait lines didn’t exist yet), so leveling them took a long time. When you died, there was no option to revive at the spot; you had to retreat to a stone circle (or be lucky and be found by a friendly captain, lore-master or minstrel). Traveling took much longer than it does today, with fewer stables and swift travel routes gated behind reputation (and no option unlock them with mithril coins).”

Aywren Sojourner: FFXIV — My role play conundrum

“Maybe that’s why I always have an itch to create a RP blog/journal for my MMO characters. In fact, long ago when the Internet was new (to me), the appeal of being online wasn’t gaming, but rather RP through long-lost chat rooms, forums and mailing lists.”

Every day there are tons of terrific, insightful, and unusual articles posted across the MMO gaming blogosphere — and every day, Justin reads as many as he can. Global Chat is a sampling of noteworthy essays, rants, and guides from the past few weeks of MMO discourse.
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37 Comments on "Global Chat: Is Ashes of Creation worth backing?"

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Truman Barney

I’m just going to sit back and wait for one of these kickstarter MMO’s to pan out that I’ve already thrown hundreds of dollars to. I’ve seen a lot of projects that look great but I’m just too wary right now of throwing away my money to projects that might never see the light of day.

Loyheta
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Kickstarter Donor
Loyheta

I backed it but I just lowered my backing to 25 bucks. Really low investment on the chance it is good so I can get the backer rewards. There really isn’t a worthwhile backing tier unless you hit at least 400 bucks for the lifetime sub. I am not going to invest that much.

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Koshelkin

If a dev wants me to back a MMO they have to show alot more than Ashes is currently doing.

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Melissa McDonald

I remember LOTRO before the directional arrow in the mini map that leads you to your active quest. Boy, that made the game a million times easier.

Before that, you had a very EverQuest-like vague notion of the “region” or “zone” you were supposed to be in, and you could spend hours looking for your goal. Now it’s easy to the point of almost regret, but I can’t go backwards.

I can barely imagine any MMO that I am willing to KS or pre-fund anymore.

“Ain’t nothin’ as good as you want it to be” – Scratch, “CROSSROADS”

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odin valhalla

Remember moria before lighting? There was an “F” command for the latern I cant remember it though. LOTRO is an awesome game, Rohan really was a deal breaker for a lot of people. Trait Tree’s, mounted combat, big battles. Its really a shame because really through lothlorien it was spectacular.

Im glad its still going though, I never thought they would make it to 10 years with all the ups and downs. LOL

Reader
kidwithknife

Nah. IMO crowdfunded MMO projects are inherently shady and I’m not terribly inclined to donate to any of them unless I have some reason to believe that they will actually deliver the goods. Doubly so when it’s a Game That Will Change Everything like this one, as I’ve yet to see such a game come close to making good on their hype. I hope they succeed but I’m not willing to bet money on it.

Reader

If I am going to spend money on an MMO. I am going to spend money on the title I am playing now. Not the title that I “may” play years down the road. A title that is unproven and that may change countless times during the development process. I have no idea if the final product will be something that can hold my interest. So why would I throw money at it?

Reader
Mikka Hansen

Nopenopenope.

On one hand they claim to have all they money needed to fully fund the project, so whats even the point of the KS?

On the other hand, they have shown absolutly nothing at all to back up the technical expertise required to carry their vision to completion. If anything they have raised a bunch of red flags from me, trying to pass some non-gameplay UE4 tech demos with bought UE Market assets as “alpha gameplay videos”

I dont back projects that do nothing but show you a chalkboard filled with to-dos, wishlists & buzzwords if I dont see a company behind that inspires confidence in the game ever seeing the light.

this company? zero confidence

Reader
Reht

The point is the will have use investors (he said he had investors lined up) and when that happens they lose some creative control and become accountable to them. Kickstarter is basically free money for them at the expense of perks for players when the game launches, it’s a great deal for the studio – they don’t have to give up a piece of the pie or any control. Then they can follow up it up with a cash shop on the site selling the same packages for a little more money, so the rubes don’t feel like they got ripped off.

Reader
MesaSage

Old reasoning – “we need the money to develop”
New reasoning – “we need the money to gauge interest and raise awareness”

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Reader
MeltWithYou

I’m not backing…but that doesn’t mean I don’t want it to succeed because I do. These next few years are going to be pretty exciting for the genre. For a long time, WoW and it contemporaries have been theme parking it up which IMO stifled innovation. Now we’re seeing games go back to the seamless universe, less focus on theme parking, more focus on world and player interaction. That is, if all these dev’s can deliver on their visions. At the very least, the vision is there and its one a lot of people have been clamoring for for a long time.

However Ashes reminds me of Star Citizen in a way. I hope they’re temporing the feature bloat, hit release, THEN expand on the feature set.

Reader
FreecczLaw

Yeah, I have found it so frustrating to be an mmorpg player with a preference for less themeparky games, basically since WoW release (I liked WoW for the record). Not because I can’t enjoy a good themepark game, but because there were no alternatives.

So many times when I and a lot of other people voiced our frustrations you always had other players go “well themepark games is the future, noone wants anything else and the proof is that noone plays anything else”. When in reality you had hundreds of themepark games being made that completely bombed and more or less zero other games.

There was never a chance to play anything else because they didn’t exist which some people took as proof that noone wanted them. Developers just wanted a piece of the WoW cake or even to be the next WoW killer which stagnated the genre entirely and a part of the playerbase was just ignored.

I am so happy to see developers finally starting to actually develop something different and realizing there are a lot of different types of mmorpg players. Just like there were hundreds of themepark games (several even AAA games) that failed and a few made it decently, I am sure the same will happen with the up and coming mmorpgs, a lot of them will fail to deliver, but if we are lucky one or two will really live up to their potential and we get some really cool experiences from them.

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odin valhalla

No, I am one of the many people who believe the new business model Pay to Develop (P2D) is bad for gaming and gamers. I believe companies should be rewarded with consumption when they actually have a product that can be played.

In traveling around to other fansites Ive found many other people feel the same way. However it seems many people dont feel the same way. Its amazing to me that in 2017 kickstarters for MMO’s can still raise millions given the many bad prefunded experiences we’ve had but having disposable income isnt a bad thing, lol.

This particular case is curious as they claim they were already funded, so a kickstarter seems to be used as a marketing tool. I am amazed that players would pay to be marketed too, if there funding claims are true. I suspect these are many of the same people who rail against the ethics of gaming companies who have lock boxes, or complain about P2W. The MMORPG community, from dev to newb is drowning in abject hypocrisy IMHO.

Reader
FreecczLaw

From what I understand the funding they had before the kickstarter was enough to make the game. The kickstarter however has made sure they can take the game a few steps farther. I am sure it is also a good marketing tool, but players being able to decide if they want to invest money to make the game better or just let it stay at a more basic level makes sense.

Reader
odin valhalla

I understand. It’s dangerous to have a cynical or contrarian view on fansites particularly during a hype phase of a game. Those who do participate in the marketing campaign are essentially gambling. This particular one seems to be a great bet but I do understand backers don’t like to have their gambles questioned or examined critically. It could suggest they were zealous and have some negative connotation.

I’m certainly not suggesting that, I am thankful I have disposable income where a $500.00 investment into a game will not have a material effect on my life. I am happy other people have this ability as well. I still believe firmly it doesn’t help the industry as a whole from the gamers point of view but that’s just my opinion.

Reader
FreecczLaw

I think I agree with you in the sense that it isn’t good for the industry as a whole (from a gamers perspective). At the same time though, if the other option is getting another 15 years of AAA developers deciding what gamers should like by refusing to make anything except something that fits the exact mold of previous sucesses like WoW (hard to convince investors to do anything else I am sure) then I start getting a little bit unsure.

If kickstarters like these are what is needed to take the next step in development of the genre I will take it, but I do see problems with it of course.

camren_rooke
Reader
camren_rooke

It is not worth it to me to back them. I wish them well but I don’t think it’s something I will be interested in.

pepperzine
Reader
pepperzine

It’s not worth backing for the simple reason they don’t need the money. Projects that actually need the money to be developed are worth backing, but AoC has claimed since day one that they had all the funding they need. Not worth risking your money for some non-existing shinies when launch could be very far away. If the benefits to essentially preordering are that amazing that you’d preorder it without it being 50% complete than it’ll have a hard time convincing players to join after launch due to the inability to get those benefits.

Reader
FreecczLaw

I am going to say the opposite tbh. I think my money is better spent on a project that is already funded so it has more to show and convince me it is the real deal as well as have a higher chance of actually happening regardless. This kickstarter was made to expand the scope of the game at release which to me is a good investment if anything, higher chance I am not throwing away my money because the game is already funded and I decide if I like the extra things my money would go to, if not I don’t invest and if I like them I give them my money. This way I at least know more of what my money is spent on and has a higher chance of actually delivering something.

Reader
FreecczLaw

I will just give them my money when they deliver instead. EQN burned me a bit too much when it comes to supporting something. I liked SOE and really wanted to support them in their EQN efforts, even if I realized it might never become what they were aiming for.

However I never dreamed of it all becoming the mess it did and realizing that I had given my money to a company like Daybreak with its investors is just the biggest reason as for why I will never back anything . Just to make sure my money doesn’t go into the wrong hands again. It doesn’t really matter to me if I throw away money on something that doesn’t deliver what it promised because I realize that happens. I just don’t want to make the mistake of having given my money to assholes again.

Reader
Daniel Miller

Honrstly this game mmo reminds me of project phoenix. It got more money than this aoc. And it was before starcraft and has nothing to show for it.

Their is no reason to back it. Times have shown after ks you got company wrbpages with same offerings. Months and years later.

Star citisain, camalot unchained, chronicalus of eleria and so mamy other are not out.

People should relax on jype and enjoy current mmos or offline games ir mew hobby. Vs being tricked or let down one game after anothet.

kalamari_
Reader
kalamari_

nothing is worth backing. we had games for 40 years before backing was a thing and the game industry somehow managed to finish these games without it.

Reader
Paul Sherrard

I was on the fence until I watched/listened to the interview with the Lazy Peon and the Ashes creator. Solid answers, doesn’t back down from criticism, and seems to have a very clear view of what he wants to play and have created. I figure it’s 40 bucks I may never see again, but I’ve paid more for less.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Ville Uusitalo

Im actually pretty curious where this project turns out… Crowfall used to be something that I waited but after seeing the Web-shop – with its almost 10k forts that you use for defense etc – I gave up on that project.

Ashes of Creation for me:

pros +
– Deep dynamic world where towns and areas evolve according to how people interact there.
– Nodes seem something like BDO nodes but upgraded. Huge props for this since I loved it in BDO.
– Engine seems good.
– World seems vibrant and lively.
– Combat is nice.
– Maybe the biggest + for Creation is that it will be Sub based rather than p2w.

Cons –
– Open World pvp is the main focus (im a pve person so it might differ from person to person)
– Id like to have more information and videos about the game

overall:
-The package seems to be the best in market in that it combines solid World/engine with good mechanics. Closest of MMORPGs it comes is Black Desert I suppose. Other Kickstarters/projects going there have gone the route Star Citizen highlighted: The ultimate cash shop route; viz. Chronicles of Elyria sells Kingdoms, and Crowfall sells almost everything.

I would personally definetely kickstart Ashes of Creation – if I had the money :/

Reader
Loyal Patron
Patreon Donor
Kickstarter Donor
Paragon Lost

There is a few things that I like that I see about Ashes aaaannd a few that concern me. Enough concerns that I didn’t back the Kickstarter. Also since I’ve backed a few things that haven’t come out yet I feel that I’m spreading myself a bit too thin if I keep backing every upcoming project. Makes me want to rein myself in a bit. If that makes sense.

Reader
socontrariwise

I’m increasingly thinking it will be a mere donation I made, not buy-in for a game to play. Not upset about loosing the money, I only do Kickstarter if I want to give money for a cause I believe is right and I can afford to loose it.
Just disappointed that it sounds like not the game I was hoping for. Reading about Sharif’s ArcheAge background and recent interviews and transcripts … I’m left ArcheAge a long time ago and the labor point leash wasn’t the major issue for me by far but the way property was handled. I have too little spare time nowadays and look for a place to settle down and enjoy community, not for another run in the hamster wheel. Enough competition, deadlines and stress at work.

Reader
Melissa McDonald

“we’re all Hamlets, mourning the ghost of our dead father (EverQuest Next).”

Reader
Sally Bowls

As AoC happens to not appeal to me, I am not on the horns of a dilemma.

The rhetoric of the KS will certainly appeal to some. OTOH, it is TBD what AoC actually will be.

Reader
Armsbend

upvote for “horns of a dilemma”.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Tazuras

Backed it at a low tier. The initial stretch goals were good and I really like the concept of the game. I was really pumped about EQN until Daybreak happened and this seems like a toned down and more achievable version of it. 30 mill for a game like this seams like a reasonable budget (though I am no expert) and I would think using such an industry standard engine will help keep some costs low. I also feel that systems like spatialos and lumberyard are going to help keep development costs lower across the spectrum of MMO development, and maybe they will end up using one of those.

Reader
Reht

I want to support this game but find myself hesitating every time it comes to finally pulling the trigger. They have some really great ideas, unfortunately i don’t think they will be able to pull them off without watering them down. I just don’t see how a small indie studio can pull off something this ambitious. I hope i am wrong because it will end up being a game i would want to play, but i just have a bad feeling about it because of their pricing scheme (doesn’t seem self sufficient long term unless the game explodes), small studio, etc.

Reader
Armsbend

As for the headline: they have their money just be smart and patient and wait. There is no need to rush into anything especially when you get zero return. Getting a game is not a return.

Reader
Rhime

I paid $25 just for the refreshing subscription base that the game comes with. Fuck all P2W/B2P cash shops….seriously.

Reader
Sally Bowls

IMO, the idea that the subscription base mentioned in the marketing copy will be reflected in the eventual game seems far more optimistic than the trajectory of the rest of the MMO market would warrant.

GL though.

Reader
Xijit

The sub plus cash shop put me off … seems like another delusional developer that thinks a P2P title will have any kind of a shot in the current market, not to mention that how they are putting 1 month of game time in the $25 bracket (like it is a good deal) shows that they are clearly not thinking about bucking the trend and dropping the monthly cost below the industry contrived norm of $15 a month.

I’ll wait till it inevitably goes F2P & see if it isn’t another Wildstar.

deekay_plus
Reader
deekay_plus

i’m not going to back asahes but i will be keeping an eye on it as it develops.

Reader
Robert Mann

Yes and No. There are some things I am very wary of (more minor, but still bugging me personally,) and also looking at stretch goals that I don’t care about doesn’t really inspire me right now. That said, if somebody were interested in those, and not so much wary of certain things that I find potentially troublesome… then perhaps (depends on them.)

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