MMO Week in Review: Elder Scrolls goes back to Skyrim, New World abolishes FFA PvP

    
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I thought this week was going to be all about the reveal of Elder Scrolls Online’s Greymoor chapter – who’s up for vampire vikings?! – with a dash of World of Warcraft’s Visions of N-Zoth and Guild Wars 2’s Shadows in the Ice. But apparently, everyone just wants to sit around and bicker about PvP in MMORPGs, or at least we’re all taking the opportunity thanks to New World’s brutal crackdown on FFA PvP in its big revamp.

Read on to catch up with the very best of this week’s MMO news and opinions today as every Sunday in Massively Overpowered’s Week in Review!

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Every week, get caught up on the MMO genre’s latest news and Massively OP’s best content in our MMO Week in Review! Want more roundups of content? Try Friday’s Betawatch for MMO testing highlights, Saturday’s Make My MMO for MMO crowdfunding updates, and Sunday’s The MOP Up, which mops up all the bits of news we didn’t cover anywhere else.

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Arktouros

The bickering over PvP and PvP players in general is always pretty understandable. The very nature of Player vs Player makes enemies out of people. Those who don’t want to do PvP end up enemies with those who do want to PvP. In any kind of conflict it’s pretty understandable to see the kind of myopic, reductionist viewpoints towards one another.

Personally I don’t see the need for it. There doesn’t need to be some kind of ridiculous ideological argument every time a new game is announced and why it needs to change. If you don’t like aspects to the game whether it be a PvP focus or a missing gender or game play you don’t like then just don’t play the game. This expectation that games change to appease us has just gotten very weird over time.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

+1000.

Back in the day when there was only 3 or 4 games to play, this hate-on-sight might, big emphasis on might, have made sense. Nowadays, I don’t see the point.

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Alomar

As a hardcore openworld pvper, yes we’re all still planning to play New World, the only endgame currently developed still is pvp driven land claiming. I actually prefer no full loot pvp, but the removal of ffa pvp doesn’t really benefit pve’ers as much as it’s being made out to be. Not sure why so many pve players are so excited, there’s still no pve content past the leveling process and crafting feature. If you want to experience the npc attacks on your land claims you’ll need to open yourself up to being pvped in the 50v50’s. The percentage of pvpers who actually waste their time killing low levels or pve’ers is so small it would have been more creative and intended to see the community find a solution as sandboxes are intended to do, rather than a design overhaul.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

I’d be cautious about taking the Alpha experience and running with it. AGS yanked the game to redo it, which they obviously are.

Probably the only thing you can take away from the Alpha into the New New World is the artwork.

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Sarah Cushaway

Good on New World. Having FFA PVP would relegate that game to niche and immediately DOA for the vast majority of MMORPG fans–and if this totes itself as an MMORPG, it needs to cater to that crowd. Most FFA PVP games DO NOT do well and end up on life support. BDO is an exception and not the rule.

There are many, many FFA PVP run and guns and survival titles out there for PVPers to enjoy.

That said, the PVE in New World is weak anyway so it’s still going to be hot garbage with or without FFAPVP–but at least this way it has something of a chance to correct course.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

Good to see that AGS decided to axe FFA PvP. It would be great if New World becomes the first viable AAA game this decade. When it was first announced, I had completely written it off; but it sounds like the devs took the results from their Alpha test and are working to reshape it. Here’s hoping they succeed.

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Jack Pipsam

Weekly news swinging right back into gear of all the stuff ^_^

Random MMO fan
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Random MMO fan

Speaking of New World and this site in general, it makes me disappointed seeing how many bigoted, selfish and simple-minded readers there are. Readers who, instead of discussing a good game design (which implies balance between all aspects of gameplay and giving as much choice as possible to satisfy as many gameplay preferences of different kind of players as possible) or instead of discussing the fact that New World is scheduled to release this year without basic things like good storyline, PvE dungeons or tools for social interaction and social events can only reply with personal attacks towards players with different gameplay preference:

View post on imgur.com

And people say that “Reddit is bad”…

hurbster
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hurbster

And revealing other people’s usernames is an act of class ?

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BalsBigBrother

There is a report post option if you feel someone pushes things too far or outright breaks the published code of conduct (Which is linked at the bottom of every article for reference)

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Robert Mann

Where I respected your choice not to insult people in that article, there were comments about “small-brains”, “Liars”, “Morons”, and so on… directed at both PvE focused people and developers.

Those posts actually happened before many of these other replies. Where these replies are in bad taste, they are likely the result of the same sort of frustrations that you are expressing in bad taste here. Similarly to the people who wanted the open PvP of N.W. alpha and are now upset and expressing themselves with vitriol.

Naming/Shaming is a poor idea, it just turns everyone against each other. The consequences for such things need an authority system which then has to deal with their own consequences with each person (staying or leaving and not being part of the website here, as an example, as people see how reports are handled). Just like insults or otherwise attacking anyone IRL.

I do value the input of the PvP focused people here. I want you guys to have your games, to share insights with us on thing such as what was tied to PvP centric forts with N.W., and so on. The petty squabbling over the choice of where the game is going is not new, but I do hope it stops, because the honest truth is that we should all be cheering and hoping for good games for everyone here.

*Caveat, I am not anti-PvP, just I want big battles with a war setting, honor in battles mattering to the politics, reputation, and so on in-game, and making things fairly friendly even within the aspect of such wars for the most part (a couple groups might be the ‘evil, wicked, or abusive’ type homes, but my thoughts are that since such places couldn’t be trusted more than anyone else… the rest of the world would be wise in aligning together against them, so not sure how I would make that work within a setting. Maybe some natural defences that making wiping them out difficult or something?*

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Arktouros

To specifically respond to the “small brain” comment I made, it was not directed towards PvE players nor was it used to imply enabling PvE players was small brained. It was specifically made in reference to the developers unable to come up with a solution towards the problems with their PvP system and so they defaulted to the most basic of solutions and let people bypass the system entirely. Hence “small brain” because they didn’t really solve the problem they just skipped over it.

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Sarah Cushaway

That’s the pot calling the kettle black there, child. “Speaking of New World and this site in general, it makes me disappointed seeing how many bigoted, selfish and simple-minded readers there are.”

Simple-minded, bigoted (sorry, PVPers are not an oppressed demographic LOL FFS), selfish? All because they don’t like open PVP games or the type of player that tends to ruin those games for others?

Yeah, you’re one of them, aren’t you?

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Arktouros

bigoted (sorry, PVPers are not an oppressed demographic LOL FFS)

So this is what this word actually means:

big·ot·ed
/ˈbiɡədəd/
adjective: bigoted

Having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one’s own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others.

No oppressed demographic required.

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Bruno Brito

Boo hoo.

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Arktouros

It’s a tribal thing. They’re all on “Team PvE” so naturally anything that’s bad for “Team PvP” they are happy about. It’s really escalated the last few years as game companies stopped trying to chase the PvE crowd.

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Bruno Brito

It’s funny because i actually enjoy the hell out of PvP in my games.

I just don’t think openworld PvP is a good idea outside contained regions ( WvW for instance ).

There wasn’t a single PvPer argument that convinced me that PK was a MUST for a healthy competitive enviroment for PvP.

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Arktouros

There wasn’t a single PvPer argument that convinced me that PK was a MUST for a healthy competitive enviroment for PvP.

That really gets back to the root of the problem though. It’s like arguing all music “MUST” have a smooth jazzy Saxaphone in it or it’s just not good. It’s all preferences when you get down to it. Some people like one thing. Some people prefer others. As always, there’s lots of variations within. You don’t need to be convinced to like something else, by all means continue liking what you like. Equally, there’s no need to tear down or try to change a particular thing to be something more what you like or want. It’s okay if there’s things out there that you don’t enjoy but others do.

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Bruno Brito

Ark, i don’t have a problem with you wanting a PK game, nor do i think it’s wrong of you to actively have one.

But face reality: All the PK games, full loot or not, end up being massively shitshows that close early.

You’re going to have to come to terms with that. You keep arguing that PvP’ers haven’t had a decent game for that, but reality is, it’s unsustainable. Games with high risk PvP tend to have terrible retention and terrible new player experiences. They proceed to become isle with extremely small powercliques. Only specific games with those standards succeeded and it was pretty much lightning in a bottle.

Get down with the facts: You won’t find a full-loot PvP game that gets you more than 5k people and i’m being generous.

Go play Archeage.

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Arktouros

The problem with this boring, tired and old argument at this point is that no one can point to a game that was designed well and it still failed.

Obviously no bad game is sustainable. A bad PvE game is unsustainable. A bad PvP game is unsustainable. People won’t suffer bad games in an age where we are drowning in game options. If you let your new players get free farmed that’s a bad PvP game. If you don’t let people recover from loss/death that’s a bad PvP game. If you let a power base and get established that can never be challenged that’s a bad PvP game.

The few games that have been successful in the PvP games market do many things well. Most of my thoughts of what make for a good PvP game are based on understanding why they are successful and still running in spite of so many other failures. Last I checked both EVE and Albion have more than 5000 players (Albion alone has 5000 concurrent on Steam alone lately and that doesn’t represent their non-steam clients). So maybe it’s you who should be “getting down” with the facts instead of trying to pass off your opinions as facts?

Also I’ll just point out again how absolutely ridiculous is to make an argument based around a game being successful because there is literally nothing to New World in terms of PvE. During the alpha there were literally 15 different types of mobs, zero NPCs or quests/story. How much do you think they really added in the last 6 months? You can’t take a PvP based game that is entirely focused on PvP and just snap your fingers, disable PvP and call it a PvE game. As World’s Adrift (shut down) and Legends of Aria (flip flopped back to PvP) have shown it doesn’t work. As we just established, no one wants to play a bad game, and some half ass conversion towards PvE with no real PvE content is a bad game.