EVE Evolved: Fixing EVE’s New Player Experience (again)

It’s become almost a running joke in the comments of articles that EVE Online is a great game to read about but not nearly as fun to actually play. While those of us who have been playing for years can attest to EVE‘s depth and long-term gripping power, it has always been a difficult game for new players to get into. EVE sees an unmistakable spike in new players every time a story about a massive battle or political event hits the gaming media, but most don’t stay in the long term and activity levels always return to normal within a few months. CCP has tried to revamp the new player experience more times than probably any other part of the game to combat this, but EVE‘s infamous impenetrability remains stubbornly intact.

At EVE Fanfest 2016, we learned that a whopping 1.5 million people signed up to EVE last year, but that 51% of them quit within the first two hours. They’re obviously drawn in by something but are then turned off by things like the minute-to-minute gameplay or the complicated user interface. A new developer named CCP Ghost is now tasked with solving this most intractable of problems, armed with a fresh perspective and an investigator’s eye. Now it looks as if CCP may be fundamentally changing its approach to new players and is considering some options that few people expected a hardcore sandbox game like EVE would ever embrace.

In this edition of EVE Evolved, I look into the problems with EVE‘s new player experience, some interesting ideas discussed at Fanfest’s New Player Experience roundtable, and my thoughts on what the new game introduction could look like.

opportunitiesBeing thrown in at the deep end

Back when I started playing EVE in early 2004, each new player was literally dumped into space in a rookie ship with a basic tutorial that was all too easy to mess up. I remember the panic of accidentally clicking in space and watching my ship fly away from the tutorial drone I was supposed to attack, and feeling like I had no idea how this game even worked.

Back then games were less streamlined for user experience and players were perhaps more willing to put in the effort to learn complicated user interfaces and game mechanics. Though EVE‘s tutorials now do a better job of explaining the mechanics to new players, people are still fundamentally dropped into EVE at the deep end.

I’ve introduced several people to EVE Online over the years and provided varying levels of personal support. Some I just sent an invite to and left to their own devices, some I helped out with a free PLEX or some ISK, and for many I invited them to my corp and played with them every day. By far the biggest factor in how long those players stuck with EVE was how much time I played with them and how much support I offered, and that’s a common story you’ll hear from players across the game. EVE Online drops you in the ocean with cement boots and your hands tied behind your back, and the best way to avoid sinking is to have a friend with a boat to pull you out.

incarnaWhat makes players stick with EVE?

The fascinating thing about EVE‘s new player experience is that we know it doesn’t work and yet people still manage to push through it and scale EVE‘s infamous learning cliff. When you talk to players in-game, you find that most people who have been playing EVE for years were brought on board by friends or took two or three attempts at starting the game before they stuck with it. What we should be asking is what makes the players with no existing support network in-game stick with EVE, and why does it typically take more than one attempt before they stick?

Players coming to EVE without support represent the vast majority of the nearly 1.5 million lost signups each year, so any improvements made here will be a huge boost for EVE‘s new player retention rates. I think the common sense answer to both of the above questions is that EVE is complex and intimidating right from the first minute, and that it takes both time and a certain determination to get past that barrier and find something compelling.

EVE has some really compelling hooks in the form of complex social interaction, PvP that matters, world-building, deep exploration, co-operative PvE, industrial and market gameplay, and even things like designing and testing out ship setups. The problem is that none of that is immediately accessible to the average new player. Someone who signs up randomly after hearing about World War Bee or seeing the Citadel trailer won’t be able to experience any of that gameplay for weeks or months unless they’re given a helping hand by existing players.

ccpghostCCP Ghost and the simulated sandbox

The big challenge for EVE is to get new players to stick with the game until they reach something really compelling. That’s a tall order when 51% of new players quit in the first two hours, but it’s here that new producer CCP Ghost is stepping in to help. Having investigated how players approach the game in their first few hours, Ghost is advising a more guided and story-based tutorial that then gradually opens up into the sandbox game.

The core idea is that EVE should deliver small nuggets of story and progress throughout the early hours of gameplay to keep people interested, giving plenty of time to expose players to the complexity of the game incrementally rather than just chucking them in the ocean. I got a bit of insight into current thinking on the issue at the New Player Experience roundtable event, and there are some very exciting ideas on the table.

One suggestion CCP is definitely considering is that new players might be dropped into a virtual simulation of a huge space battle so they can see what it’s like within the first few hours of play. They could try a lot of different roles in the game, from manufacturing and mining to wormhole exploration and piracy, and then find one that suits them best. Ghost explained in the roundtable that research suggests new players want a safe space in which to explore the game on their own, and that the vast majority of new players would sooner quit than ask other players for help and risk being made fun of.

expansions-1A possible new new new new new player experience

The idea of dropping players into a simulated game experience and working in some kind of story may seem a little bizarre for a game that prides itself on non-instanced sandbox gameplay, but I think it’s bloody genius. Imagine if you’ve just signed up for EVE and created a character and are then dropped into a singleplayer in-station introduction. Every capsuleer starts life when they graduate from an NPC school corporation, so why not make the introduction the story of your personal capsuleer training and graduation?

You could go through the process of getting your neural jack installed and transferring into your first clone, introducing players naturally to the concept that their character is immortal. Next you could go into rooms filled with simulators that you can plug into, each of which would immerse you in one form of endgame gameplay and let you try out skills and equipment you won’t be able to realistically get your hands on for months. You could take part in a simulated PvP battle and try out different fleet roles, learn about organised mining operations, and be trained to explore wormholes and fight the Sleeper menace.

Each simulation would act as its own little nugget of story and progress, and perhaps completing each simulator could even grant you some starting skills in that area of the game in order to make you feel invested in your character. The simulators would provide a safe space in which players can explore each type of gameplay on at least a mechanical level without interference. Players could also try each simulator as many times as they like and explore the gameplay at their own pace, eventually graduating with a pilot’s license and handful of free ships. Of course, existing players should probably be able to bribe their way straight to graduation with some ISK.

npefinalthoughts

As CCP Ghost said during the EVE Fanfest 2016 keynote, “EVE Online doesn’t have a problem with attracting new players … the challenge for the game is retaining those million and a half people.” The future of EVE‘s new player experience may involve a story arc in which players are trained using simulations of real endgame gameplay. Within the controlled environment of a simulator, the complexity of EVE can then be revealed gradually before they are released into the wild.

At the very least, this new approach would help give new players a sense of direction and a goal before being dropped into the main sandbox game. Playing in simulated groups should also make very clear that EVE is at its best when played with other people, something a solo tutorial typically can’t get across. This approach also allows trial users to engage in high level gameplay during their trial without having an impact on the EVE economy. Redesigning the new player experience is an incredibly ambitious task that is so far just in the idea formation stage, but the ideas presented so far show a radical paradigm shift in how CCP deals with new players and could be exactly what EVE Online needs.

EVE Online expert Brendan ‘Nyphur’ Drain has been playing EVE for over a decade and writing the regular EVE Evolved column since 2008. The column covers everything from in-depth EVE guides and news breakdowns to game design discussions and opinion pieces. If there’s a topic you’d love to see covered, drop him a comment or send mail to brendan@massivelyop.com!
Disclosure: In accordance with Massively OP’s ethics policy, we must disclose that CCP paid for our writer’s travel to and accommodation at this event. CCP has neither requested nor been granted any control or influence over our coverage of the event. CCP Ghost also introduced himself by showing us a picture of his brain, which is certainly one way to make a strong first impression.
SHARE THIS ARTICLE
Code of Conduct | Edit Your Profile | Commenting FAQ | Badge Reclamation | Badge Key

LEAVE A COMMENT

159 Comments on "EVE Evolved: Fixing EVE’s New Player Experience (again)"

Subscribe to:
Sort by:   newest | oldest | most liked
brenten007gamer
Guest
brenten007gamer

c71clark; I totally agree with your statement.  Personally, I like EVE online but with all the assholes trying to destroy everything in high sec. I am always set back 4 – 10 days and I only have like 2-3 hours of play time which makes no sense to me.  Try to rebuild a battleship from scratch is a pain just mining everything for what I need.   Insurance doesn’t even cover all the equipment replacement, let alone T2 ship, equipment and Ammo.  Its more like the honest player get punish left and right, and for assholes getting away with everything.  So I gave up.  I went back to WOW.  At least I can get my pvp on without being set back to the baby pool every time. 

If there is one thing I ask is for, it is for high sec to be longer pvp able.  I’m jut not going back.

WOW is the best because I can PVP or PVE when I feel like it.  Not when someone else likes to.

sciencestick
Guest
sciencestick

Dixa sciencestick 
Clearly history is not on your side, the droves of players who flooded out of SWG (I was one of them) citing the NGE, This cite has talked about it and blogged about it many a time, and the plethora of postmortem development articles citing the NGE as the main cause of SWG failing prematurely, all disagree with your assessment. SWG became more like the game you wanted apparently, at the expense of massive numbers of the games existing players. You can argue that you liked it more, but the facts show that the game shriveled and died dramatically sooner than any Star Wars themed game should have expected due to the massive dumbing down and casualizing of the game.

I am talking about facts and the hard realities of different kinds of gamers who like different types of games, where the game is established like EvE is and SWG was and is already populated with players who both like and understand how it works. and you are talking about your personal subjective desire for SWG to play more like you wanted. That’s fine but not relevant to the discussion.

fluffymagicalunicorn
Guest
fluffymagicalunicorn

Morenito2k12 schmidtcapela alexjwillis Ironwu Can’t agree enough with this post.

c71clark
Guest
c71clark

Boardwalker Nyphur disUserNameTake Yes, they do endorse it. If they didn’t, it wouldn’t be nearly as prevalent as it is. Of course they don’t come OUT and support it, but actions speak louder than words, and EVE has a decade long history… 10 YEARS… of tacitly endorsing a wide variety of bad behaviors. Why? Because Eve is hardcore, dontcha know! HTFU! 

Again, this is fine! They have accepted their niche status, and all noise to the contrary, are perfectly fine with the massive churn in accounts they get. Their new push on new player tutorials and all will help them by converting those 2 hour players into 2 week players. Lots more sheep for the e-thugs to prey on in highsec.

Boardwalker
Guest
Boardwalker

salidar Boardwalker SallyBowls1 Lord Zorvan CSM members were elected by the playerbase, not CCP, so I’m not sure what your point is.

Boardwalker
Guest
Boardwalker

c71clark Nyphur disUserNameTake CCP does not endorse rooking baiting/killing. But the hyperbole is commendable. 
As for Star Citizen, it’s an instanced, space flight simulator, which is quite different from EVE, which is neither a space flight sim nor instanced (in the sense that you can have more than 64 people together at the same time). EVE is also much more an MMORPG than SC is. So both games can exist without their fans sniping at each other.

schmidtcapela
Guest
schmidtcapela

calfiseve schmidtcapela willnyc85 Dixa bobuliss30 disUserNameTake 
It’s why I don’t press it. And, if CCP ever does it, I want it to be either as a different, offline game, or as a separate PvE server. Trying to attract players like me to EVE’s current server will only serve to drive away many of the players that currently like the game.

calfiseve
Guest
calfiseve

schmidtcapela willnyc85 Dixa bobuliss30 disUserNameTake

I think the whole “cater to the prospective player” (an unknown quantity) thing is dangerous for a game that has had a loyal following for over a decade, if CCP tries to change EVE to a more fotm casual MMO then sure maybe it will have a great sub increase for a number of years, but what ultimately happens to a lot of these fotm games is ppl get bored and stop playing and move on to the next thing, so they die after burning bright for a short amount of time. That and by changing the game so dramatically you risk alienating the loyal players (a known and consistent quantity) who have subbed for years.

Dixa
Guest
Dixa

schmidtcapela willnyc85 Dixa bobuliss30 disUserNameTake what many don’t understand is that even with a pve server where you can’t have non-consensual pvp combat, you are still pvp’ng the hell out of each other economically in a game where EVERYTHING has to be made or scrounged by players.

salidar
Guest
salidar

Boardwalker SallyBowls1 Lord Zorvan Are you serious? You play EVE and don’t know the results of the CSM?

Breaking: Council of Stellar Management XI members announced.

View post on imgur.com

The entire bottom row represent only 2 alliances and all but one candidate in the entire list is a null  sec player.
Very representative of the playerbase, which is 85% hi-sec.

c71clark
Guest
c71clark

bobuliss30 chriskovo Lol, yeah. Battles with hundred or even thousands of players that, thanks to time dilation, take literally hours to fight and most of that time can be spent watching TV or ironing clothes or something. Fun….

c71clark
Guest
c71clark

Nyphur disUserNameTake CCP **endorses** this behavior by their refusal to punish players for it. They have been rewarded with a decade+ long title by allowing people to be horrible to each other. Why would they try and stop it? They make all the right noises about wanting to let people play PvE, and they put in systems that look reasonable to allow it, but nothing actually serious enough to stop it. Thus they are a successful, niche, game. They are okay with it. In the meantime, games like Star Citizen are on the horizon, and the pressure is mounting to evolve or die.

c71clark
Guest
c71clark

disUserNameTake Yep. But the e-thugs consider this to be ‘content’. You’ll hear all manner of excuses (like the one directly below), but it all comes down to excusing people being assholes in-game to other players. This is known as being “hardcore”.

c71clark
Guest
c71clark

They need to release Eve 2.0 to reset the game. If they did that, along with a little better game engine, and maybe even improvements that reduce the need for time dilation, I’d play again. There should also be a mechanism to punish players who are flat out assholes and scammers in game. Let’s be honest: It’s not the game complexity that really turns so many people off. It’s the assholes.

schmidtcapela
Guest
schmidtcapela

willnyc85 Dixa bobuliss30 disUserNameTake 
Perhaps. But the so-called “emergent gameplay” that happens between low-sec and hi-sec is an outright negative, game-breaking even, for a lot of prospective players.

In fact, what I wish for is even more extreme. I would love CCP to make either a PvE-only server (AKA no non-consensual PvP even in null-sec) or to publish an offline version of EVE. I like the game’s mechanics, I just (strongly) dislike the kind of player interaction it promotes.

willnyc85
Guest
willnyc85

Dixa bobuliss30 disUserNameTake Dixa you are completely negating the gameply dynamic of lowsec here, there are loyal players who have lived on the edge of high security and low security for years, wars have been fought over the resources of lowsec, to make it all highsec alienates a lot of emergent gameply

F1Seb
Guest
F1Seb

SallyBowls1 bobuliss30 F1Seb
I just don’t see what that constant cesspool of what’s happened in Jita adds to the value of the gameplay.  In my eyes, this adds absolutely nothing.  And if I was a new player and went into a game I’ve never played before, and saw this constants spam of utter garbage and unprocessed feces that is being spewed every .0000000001 of a second.  I’d logout and not bother.

JennAside
Guest
JennAside

sciencestick Exactly what you said.
Most people who play games are looking for certain things.  MMO players are different from console gamers and EVE (and other super niche game) players different still. That’s why almost every Elite player I know loves it and hates EVE while I found Elite to be a pretty but not my cup of tea.

You hit the nail on the head, the biggest risk is losing your core audience trying to appeal to people who won’t like what a game like that has to offer no matter what you do.

Silvercat18
Guest
Silvercat18

Captain Electric – I agree with your stance on it, Captain and think you make a pretty good summary of how things are.
With regards to EvE and its wild west nature, the recent discussions on “bumping” have been quite illuminating. I stand with those who say that bumping was/is bad for eve as its a way of doing pvp without having any consequences. I am ok with eve being tough, lawless and merciless, so long as its also fair….and if someone comes up and starts bumping someone else….I am all for that person being able to shoot them dead. Attack should always allow defence….even suicide ganking is survivable if one tanks their ship correctly, so while I may not like it, it is, at least, something someone can respond to in some way and I think that’s important.

Godson691
Guest
Godson691

bobuliss30  Here’s my problem with the current system, people game the system knowing CCP will not create a better police system in game. Unlike the real world where if you had a psychopath slaughtering people in a major first world city, there would be a major manhunt going on, not this slap on the wrists type crap if caught. The in-game repercussions don’t match the crime, they are too light. Also repeat offenders should be treated increasingly harsher.

CCP tries to act like they care about ganking in HI Sec areas, but they really don’t.  I’m not sure that they know how to cater to the potential paying “carebears”.

PS I’m one of the so called “carebears”,

Boardwalker
Guest
Boardwalker

Dixa Boardwalker Elven_Seraph Then you haven’t been on enough game forums.

MrSlow
Guest
MrSlow

I wish CCP Ghost good luck in solving eve retention rate issues by re-developing the new player experience yet again.

I would love to see the summarized results of the player exit surveys to see the variety of reasons as to why players don’t stick. 

Ex-player of 3 years and still have a soft spot for eve-online :)

Nyphur
Guest
Nyphur

disUserNameTake This is actually a bannable offense in the newbie systems, but I’ve heard so many complaints about it going on. I bet CCP isn’t actively monitoring those systems for baiters and is just relying on petitions.

Ket_Viliano
Guest
Ket_Viliano

adecoy95 Ket_Viliano  Yea.
The new skill point injectors are nice, but you need like 650m ISK to buy one, so sure that’s fer noobs… /sarc
So yea, for vets, not a problem, open your wallet, ok sure, regular noobz, well, EvE has never been nice to noobs.

adecoy95
Guest
adecoy95

Ket_Viliano eves skillpoint system is both a great and terrible selling point for the game.

on the one hand, it means you dont have to do any xp grinding, on the other hand, you feel helpless to be able to progress your character to a point where you want to fly the ships you want to fly or perform the tasks you want to perform

HDHarris
Guest
HDHarris

Silvercat18 Mailvaltar Ironwu that’s the thing; the consequences of killing in hisec are meaningless for the rich, Concord doesn’t podkill, so they just burn ships and loot you anyway.

Kaloth
Guest
Kaloth

schmidtcapela Kaloth Nyphur Dixa There are ways to catch up. I took several long breaks from Eve over the years, and on my most recent return I sold my assets and bought a pilot on the character bazaar. Sure, it doesn’t have the name I want (thankfully it doesn’t have a stupid name, but that’s one of my buying criteria), but it had all the skills I wanted.
Note that this happened long before the injector/extractor system was even announced.
Since extractors have come out, I stripped down my old pilots to minimum, sold off the extra SP, recovered more than what I paid for the new pilot, and now have a small SP farm running. Once a month I get a ‘free’ injector out of my farm after paying for 2 additional plex and extractors, from selling all the other SP they generate. Helps to give me a little boost (even if it is only 100k sp at a time).
Now, the above isn’t something a new player is going to be doing, but it isn’t beyond the reach of someone 6 months in that wants to get ahead of the curve. Which is as it should be. Need to learn the game before you put yourself on par with folks that have been around for years already, because even with all the SP in the game you won’t be able to compete if you don’t know how to play.
That said, I stand by what @Nyphur said above: players should really start with a lot more SP than they do now. At the very least a functional minimum that allows them to actually have fun.

Kaloth
Guest
Kaloth

SallyBowls1 schmidtcapela Kaloth Nyphur Dixa iirc the person who did that was one of the owners of the biggest casinos in the game. Same group of people that started funding the current war against the Goons if I’m not mistaken.
For any ‘regular’ player, that kind of thing will never happen. There’s very few people in the game that command the kind of funding required to do that.

Ket_Viliano
Guest
Ket_Viliano

bobuliss30  No, there is nothing ‘sandbox’ about always kicking sand in the new guy’s face. PvP warzone games need the DMZ safe zone so noobz can figure the game out before they fight. This was always the strength of DAoC, that you could spend ages leveling toons in a safe area before heading to the frontier to fight.

Ket_Viliano
Guest
Ket_Viliano

Silvercat18 melissaheather  comment imagecomment image
They appear to still control Pure Blind, with allies in Cloud Ring, but are not in Deklein any more. I am too busy working up some ISK to care.

Ket_Viliano
Guest
Ket_Viliano

alexjwillis Boardwalker  The RP community needs its own recruitment thread. For that matter, specialized recruitment threads would go far for all styles of play, but again, that horse is a frozen corpse floating in space.

Ket_Viliano
Guest
Ket_Viliano

bobuliss30 chriskovo  Some pilots are just much better than others.

Ket_Viliano
Guest
Ket_Viliano

TiagoCaldeira1  CCP deliberately leaves a great many backstab opportunities in the game, and the players who like that kind of thing take ruthless advantage of it. Most players are decent, or at least loyal, the trick is spotting the scoundrels.

LordSolarMacharius
Guest
LordSolarMacharius

Elven_Seraph Deepfred Freighter bumping, by the laws of physics, wouldn’t work. They simply have too much mass. It’s retarded that a tiny ship like a battleship could bounce around a ship many times its mass without sustaining massive damage or that’s it not a hostile act. Would a cop sit there and watch someone slowly keep rear-ending someone out into oncoming traffic?

LordSolarMacharius
Guest
LordSolarMacharius

Elven_Seraph CODE are still at it extorting people for the “right” to play in high-sec or else get suicide ganked? Yeah, that’s emergent gameplay and a great way to keep newbies just learning the game to stick around.

Ket_Viliano
Guest
Ket_Viliano

Dixa bobuliss30 disUserNameTake  Non-wardec-able HS corps would be a help, new players want to group with each other to learn the game, not get ganked by trolls. CCP pushes PvP much to hard, they should not push it at all. I could say more, but I have this dead horse I need to beat.

For Play in Game,
If Horse == Dead,
      Beat;

Ket_Viliano
Guest
Ket_Viliano

I find EvE oddly addictive, since I resubbed, I don’t play anything else, thou I know I should.
Having a decent amount of skill points changes the game, I have just over 60m sp and now I can do most anything I want. Early in the game, it was often maddening to have to scrape up just enough to fly a ship poorly, now I have key skills maxed and can enjoy most any activity I want.

Morenito2k12
Guest
Morenito2k12

schmidtcapela alexjwillis Ironwu Played EVE off & on for 7 years, left years ago, because of the players whose sole source of in-game enjoyment was ruining other player’s game experience. 

It’s not that it affected me all that much, had all the isk & stuff I’d ever want, was just frustrating that player’s didn’t seem to understand that running all of the newbies away for chuckles was killing the game, & that yelling “HTFU!” & “Well then they didn’t belong here anyway!” when they end up leaving was detrimental & that their short-term giggles were a formula for long-term disaster.

I remember years ago when ice fields underwent a change & ice speculation forced corp after corp to shut down their POSs because they couldn’t afford to power them. The person/s, the corp behind it had trillions, their only purpose in doing so was for the lulz & cause they could. Some indy research Corps closed their doors because of it; some only temporarily, some permanently.

The players in ANY game who pounce on those who dislike the status quo of a game are inevitably those who are benefiting from it. I’m playing The Division, & the Haves are enjoying preying on the Have-Nots in the PvP zone, door & spawn-camping them ad nauseam, then complain that the zones are empty & there’s no one left to kill, without realizing that the reason why is because they ran them all away, some permanently.

Watching players kill their game’s future for craps & giggles was maddening, watching the devs condone it for fear of running off the griefers, even worse. ‘Cause sandbox!’ isn’t a reason to kill your own game, or allow your players to do it for you. 

By not only allowing but condoning, even cheering the in-game griefing & newbie trolling, they’ve built a system where they’ve painted themselves into a corner & now CAN’T get out of it. 

I didn’t leave because I couldn’t handle it, but because I saw no reason to sit back & watch a game that I loved at one time slowly deteriorate into an even bigger trollfest.

schmidtcapela
Guest
schmidtcapela

SallyBowls1 schmidtcapela Kaloth Nyphur Dixa 
Not a realistic prospect. And the way players can use plex to fund those purchases makes it even worse, because the whole system starts to smack of pay to win.

schmidtcapela
Guest
schmidtcapela

Boardwalker schmidtcapela VanillaBri 
That is not safe. It merely means that some sort of revenge will be served. And is absolutely worthless to players that aren’t interested in revenge.

But then, my question was more on the rhetorical side. Ever since I attempted to play EVE I decided to never again, for as long as I live, even try any game where non-consensual PvP can find me. If someone can attack me without my explicit consent there is absolutely no chance I will ever waste any time or money with the game.

Boardwalker
Guest
Boardwalker

SallyBowls1 Boardwalker Lord Zorvan Can you provide links? Comments made by massively posters don’t count, especially with so many EVE haters on this site.

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

bobuliss30 F1Seb  Except it’s not really a complete sandbox; I can’t use Jita chat to tell you who to vote for, who should be your Lord and Savior or how to buy Amway products from me.  I can swindle you out of $2000 worth of PLEX but I can’t use the same technique to swindle you out of $20 intended for Haiti relief.

Players are constrained.  Some people agree with where CCP draws the lines and some don’t.

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1
SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

alexjwillis Ironwu  But this echo chamber is the potential customer base for EVE to replenish the inevitable churn in any subscription business.  There is a reason why CCP spent/spends tens of millions of dollars on WoD and DUST and Legion and Gundrak and Valkyrie and Nova instead of EVE Online. EVE has passionate fans but not a lot of growth prospects.

Of course. it does not matter what is true.  If you can’t mention your product anywhere except a half dozen web sites without an immediate negative reaction, then that is a problem with and for the product.  How much is caused by product defects and how much is slander in an unjust world does not matter.

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

Boardwalker Lord Zorvan Well in the article within the last week, there were numerous comments re CCP Falcon. All but 2 or three of the recent CSM are from one of 3 groups with voting down 40%. …

schmidtcapela
Guest
schmidtcapela

alexjwillis Ironwu Not
everyone that plays EVE is a sociopath, of course, but EVE, as well as
other similar open PvP games with harsh consequences for defeat, enables
— and at times even encourages — players to engage in behavior that
would be clearly sociopathic if done in the real world: scamming,
betraying, causing harm to others just to have some fun (AKA griefing),
and so on.

That, in turn, disproportionally attracts
sociopaths, people that would love to behave like that in the real world
but can’t due to real world consequences. Games like EVE, Mortal
Online, pre-Trammel UO, and so on do have an issue in that they have far
more than their fair share of sociopaths. I’ve even seen former UO
devs acknowledge it directly in an interview (to the chagrin of Markee
Dragon, the blogger who was conducting the interview and a true fan of
every kind of non-consensual PvP).

So, yeah, you are
right in that not everyone in EVE is a sociopath. I would agree even
that most of the players in EVE should be nice. That doesn’t change the
fact EVE cradles sociopaths and gives them the tools to ruin the
experience for other players just for fun.

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

Boardwalker VanillaBri EVE maps don’t really work like that. Ignoitton is a low sec (unsafe) zone only 3 jumps from Jita while Jita to Rens is all hisec, but is 25 jumps.

Two days ago, my empty shuttle was destroyed by a -10 member of CODE in hisec on the way to a hub.  No cargo, no political or strategic reason. No biggie; I just sent my pod back AFK and went back to doing more interesting stuff.  But I am sure the next time I unsub, it will not be because of the complexity or price, just the people.

F1Seb
Guest
F1Seb

Belegorm LordSolarMacharius bobuliss30 F1Seb

Correct.  And just google how many people get infected by hijackware each year…. Same goes for noobies in EVE online.  Vets and experienced pilots wont fall for it.  Noobies on the other hand….yeah.

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

bobuliss30  IDK but what I read here is that SWG was both a sandbox and had lots of completely safe area unless you flagged.

schmidtcapela
Guest
schmidtcapela

stiqy kgptzac 
So, CCP has research showing that the vast majority of the new players will rather leave the game than seek help from other players, and you are suggesting they seek help from a player corp?

I don’t think that works.

wpDiscuz