Massively Overthinking: Our MMO hopes and wishes for 2018

One of the frustrating bits about our end-of-the-year content rollouts is that sometimes predictions and story roundups can come across as negative. It’s way too easy to assume that if someone is predicting game X will flop, she wants it to happen and is gleefully steepling her fingers and cackling madly over its future demise. Which is just not so! I never steeple my fingers.

But all the same, for tonight’s Massively Overthinking, we’d like to take a moment to set aside our fears and expectations and just talk about our hopes and wishes for 2018 in an MMORPG context. That was what we think will happen. This is a summary of our most optimistic daydreams.

Andrew Ross (@dengarsw): I hope Star Citizen, Crowfall, Worlds Adrift, and Chronicles of Elyria release to half the hype we’ve heard, if not more. And I wish that people could better understand game development cycles so they don’t buy into Kickstarters thinking that they’re going to get a finished product sooner rather than later. In fact, I wish developers would just stop the whole “early access” thing, keep alpha/beta content to deep-pocket fans and professional QA testers, and release a small, complete, but tightly designed game and release relevant systems around that.

I hope Daybreak and Turbine wake up and figure out how to keep their historic IPs —EverQuest and Asheron’s Call — relevant for MMO players (please no match 3 or game of timers stuff).

I wish Niantic would taking a figurative step back every time they also improve the game. If that’s too much to ask, I wish Maguss would release to open beta so we can see if Niantic actually has good competition in terms of AR usability.

I hope Nintendo considers developing outside its consoles. Can you imagine if it developed something for VR without needing to produce its own goggles? YEESH, what am I saying? Let’s upgrade this: I wish Nintendo would develop for PC! You all deserve Splatoon 2 and probably whatever Switch Pokemon title is being developed.

Last, but not least, I wish lootboxes, their keys, and boosters would stop being sold in virtual stores. Go skins. Go mount sets. Go DLC. Go t-shirts, action figures, and hilariously tone-deaf scented candles! I can respect all that a million times more than the path we’re currently set on.

Brianna Royce (@nbrianna, blog): Given how many of our readers are antsy over the slow progress of many Kickstarted indie MMOs, I really hope some of the core ones make big moves this year. Camelot Unchained needs beta one, Crowfall cannot afford a third annual delay, Shroud of the Avatar needs to launch in the clear so we can grapple with the money situation there, and so on. I’ll be thrilled if any of the superhero games lands on my desk. I don’t want any of these games to come out and flop because that sets the tone for the rest.

I would love for Star Citizen to come out with a clear financial report rather than a confusing technical progress report, mainly to shut down the so we can focus on everything else. Right now, every discussion over the development of this game breaks down into polarizing “hater” vs “fanboy” commentary that always ends with “scam!” and “nuh-uh!,” which is pointless and is providing a convenient smokescreen for what’s really going on with the game, its studio, and its community.

I would love to see more progress on New World as well as the crop of games coming from Asia. Elder Scrolls Online – how about a Daggerfall court-intrigue chapter? Guild Wars 2 – how about announcing Cantha?! World of Warcraft – entice me back! It’s been too long! And hey, where’s my Diablo 4?

I’d love to see EA put some real money into Star Wars The Old Republic. It seems criminal to keep wasting the Star Wars gaming IP while Disney is pumping out a movie every year.

I’m concerned about Broadsword’s plans for Ultima Online’s F2P mode and hope it pans out.

I’d love to see some AAA studios commit to real MMORPGs again. Really, if I could have just one wish, that’d be it.

Eliot Lefebvre (@Eliot_Lefebvre, blog): The thing is, I don’t have a whole lot of hopes and dreams most years; I tend to operate within a reasonably narrow band of what I think is actually going to happen rather than just what I’d like to happen. But I still have a few.

I hope that as odd as it might sound, Battle for Azeroth is an expansion that really breaks the raid stranglehold on World of Warcraft’s endgame design. The funny thing is that there’s already some evidence of this, considering that we know it shan’t have traditional tier sets and there’s already other content lined up as front-and-center additions. There’s been a long and rather unpleasant string of the game having only one form of content as the expected endgame forever, with very little deviation; I’d certainly like to see that broken up.

I hope that the next update in Final Fantasy XIV really does work significantly better in terms of the game’s housing markets. Pretty much everything else I have every reason to expect will keep humming along nicely, but the open-world housing structure and according limitations on actually getting a damn house have made the game far more unpleasant than it ought to be when people just want to play the game. Fixing that would be incredibly welcome.

I hope that the City of Heroes spiritual successors start to successfully transition from “project” into “actual playable thing” with results that make people take notice. Right now, these projects are mostly ideas, not actual, playable titles. There’s a lot of stuff that can still go wrong before they make the jump into being wholly playable. I’d like to see some of that working out, even if I have a suspicion borne of long experience that one (and possibly all) will crash and burn along the way.

And hey, last but not least, I’d like Ascent: Infinite Realm to be cool. I’d also like Peria Chronicles to be released and be fun. That’ll round things out nicely.

Well, I'm mollified.

Justin Olivetti (@Sypster, blog): For as long as I’ve followed and played MMORPGs, I’ve had an optimistic view of the industry, the community, and the games. Not a rose-colored glasses view, but one that exulted in the joy of gaming, hype, and social connections. And while there are always plenty of things you can point to as to why “MMOs are dying” or studios are corrupt or the community is a cesspit… I think there’s still a lot of good things out there that can be extracted and appreciated.

So, as always, I have hope that 2018 will be a great year for online gaming. I would love to see some new big games come on the scene, as always, but I would love even more for some of these smaller indie MMOs to be bona fide breakout hits when they finally launch. I hope that people would stop complaining so much and start having fun again, to know when it’s important to be critical without devolving into cynicism and a nonstop whine.

I don’t want games to shut down. I do want new ones to be announced and launch. Any news that gets me enthusiastic about the titles I already play is welcome — expansions, updates, population increases, improvements, and so on. I would love to be pleasantly stunned by surprises, such as the World of Warcraft Classic announcement this year. And while I’m wishing for things, what about bringing back formerly dead MMOs for a second run? I’m sure we can all think of one or two.

Your turn!

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flyingltj
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flyingltj

My MMO dream for 2018… An MMO that’s actually playable and not a shameless cash grab custom tailored to appeal to the absolute lowest common denominators.

… yeah, I’ll keep dreaming.

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rafael12104

Well, I’m a bit selfish.

And so, what I hope for, again, this year for the industry to release another jewel which combines the best of music, art, and story that distills entertainment into something more than anything TV and or Film could ever hope to achieve.

It happened last year with single player games. And this year, I hope to see it with an MMO/MMORPG or any flavor therein.

I’m with the crazy guy from the Video Games Awards. “Fuck the Oscars!”

BTW, I’m serious. It’s time video games like the ones we love stopped playing fourth fiddle to music, TV, and Film. Video games can be the best of all three and the highest art form.

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Vunak

I wish BHS would put TERA back into development and turn it into what was documented during its initial developer papers during the alpha tests and what not. Either that or TERA 2 with similar goals/combat.

I hope Project TL shows it is very far into development cycle since its using assets from Eternal and gets a global release by the end of the year.

I hope Crowfall can pull itself together, release all the classes and get chugging on creating a stable environment with key systems in and done.

I hope Disney decides to can EA and give the Star Wars license to long time partner Square-Enix.

I hope we see more AAA studios take a crack at real MMOs.

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rafael12104

Cheers to that! Square-Enix understands brand and all that it means.

Cadaver
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Cadaver

My wish would be for gamers to become more circumspect in their spending, with the hopeful outcome being less remorse, less rancour and less incentive for developers to push predatory monetization strategies. Don’t reward a dog when it bites you.

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Timber Toes

My wish for 2018 is EverQuest 3. Besides that my only wish would be to see PvE only servers in all these new games coming out. I’m sick of the toxic PvP crowd.

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Melissa McDonald

my wish for 2018: The death of the “PvP survival sandbox” game.

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Alex Malone

My expectation is that 2018 (and 2019) will be the year of “proof of concepts”.

There are a ton of indie MMOs currently in development set for release over the next year or two. The majority of them are attempting new mechanics or designs that we just haven’t seen before. That’s great for the industry, whether you prefer sandbox or themepark, pvp or pve, there is a little something new for everyone in the indie scene.

That said, I think all of them are being too ambitious for their small budgets and so won’t be able to deliver good, cohesive games. Hence, I think of them as proof of concepts.

Things like Elyria’s ageing / family mechanics, Crowfall’s procedurally generated campaigns, Pantheon’s climate system or AoC’s player impact on the world, these are all really great ideas that are needed for the genre. I just don’t think the developers will be able to create all these great new features on top of everything else we expect from an MMO, resulting in disjointed games.

But, there is hope for the future. These indies are providing the proof of concept, so I hope that further down the line the big studios will return and “steal” these ideas for the next generation of AAA MMORPGs.

xpsync
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xpsync

I suppose it’s not exactly a wish, nor a hope but an inevitably, not an if but a when, so all i can wish for is that SWL season 2 launches sooner than later.

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thalendor

I’m hoping that new features in Battle for Azeroth will be a fun as I imagine them to be when I inevitably resubscribe.

I’m wishing for the Pantheon beta to begin sometime this year yet so I can get a first-hand look at the game. I’m hoping to see in this game some of the things that have been, in my opinion, unfortunately lost in most new MMOs, including meaningful crowd control and challenging, group-based gameplay thoughout the game world instead of just being quarantined to dungeons and raids.

Asking for anything beyond that, and I’m just setting myself up for certain, instead of just possible, disappointment.

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Archebius

As always, my wishes are short and simple – renewed interest in MMOs for the worlds and communities they can create, not just the grinds they can be; that no studios would suffer a shutdown or loss; and that, someday soon, there will be a home for all those who wander.

Happy new year, everyone.

Polyanna
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Polyanna

I hope that as odd as it might sound, Battle for Azeroth is an expansion that really breaks the raid stranglehold on World of Warcraft’s endgame design.

I’m not sure BFA will be departing quite as much from raid-or-die as people think, but if it doesn’t break the stranglehold, it will at least shift its grip a little.

The presentation on Warfronts at Blizzcon was, I thought, a bit opaque and confusing, because it wasn’t clear unless you listened closely that these are basically what will pass for “raids” in BFA, or at least the first couple tiers.

Warfronts still are 20+ player instances, and they still require effective team-wide coordination to advance the scenario and “win.” The difference is, rather than 20 players dancing around a room with a single huge boss in the middle, they’re more of a weird mash-up of survival / building and RTS mechanics, in a large team multi-player, non-PvP format. The name “Warfronts” is confusing since at first glance the natural assumption is that these would be faction-vs-faction large team PvP fights; but in fact they’re pure PvE, and the panelists said no PvP mode is planned for them.

So, they’re really “raids” by another name, whether or not they’re called that. They may be more interesting raids, with some more involved mechanics, and it seems probably some more open ended team comp strictures (maybe entirely role agnostic even). But they’re still things that require you to get 20+ people to work together to progress through a PvE instance. And they’ll still be a prime venue for getting the best gear and other items.

That said, the 3-man co-op “Islands” also appear poised to extend the concept of mythic plus to smaller teams (maybe also role-agnostic), allowing for less than five man groups and having scaling difficulties, including a PvP mode where you fight other players in addition to (or instead of) just NPCs. Islands probably will deliver similarly lucrative reward as Warfronts will, at least at the highest difficulty, and they’ll likely develop as their own free-standing venue for challenge progression, viewed as separate and entirely distinct from, and not at all dependent on raiding, similar to how mythic plus has in Legion.

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Ken from Chicago

I hope STAR CITIZEN 3.x becomes stable enough for me to try to download and log into game for the first time since 2016.

I hope STAR TREK ONLINE has consistent on-ship missions, or at least be able to fly a ship from inside it and otherwise keep on being great.

I hope CITY OF TITANS launches at least an alpha version (is that a “soft launch”?). The same of SHIP OF HEROES. Has VALIANCE ONLINE already released an “early access” version?

I hope there are more scifi mmos. The umpteenth fantasy mmo? I think that need has been filled–several times over. Even fantasy’s goth sibling, horror mmo, have plenty of offerings. I want more traditional scifi thank you very much.

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Utakata

I hope WoW’s Battle for Azeroth is a stunning success…and there is more to this expansion than just faction grimacing over land grabs and PvP.

I hope Blade & Soul irons out some of the kinks and content disconnects I am running into…as this game is growing leaps and bounds on me.

I hope all those spiritual successors of City of Heroes find one game to put themselves behind…as opposed to splitting up an already thinning pie wedge.

I hope the industry can move beyond the practises of disingenuous business models and whale services…that seems to spoil so much of game experiences.

And I hope developer realize that they only seem more interested in PvP than the average player…and hopefully adjust their games accordingly.

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Knox Harrington

Usually I’m not one for government regulation but if that’s what it takes to get rid of lockboxes, then I might be on board. Or the gaming masses that purchase lockboxes could exercise a little self-awareness and resist the urges of their growing gambling addiction. If we all stopped purchasing the shit, they’d stop selling them. But I do wonder what perversion would take its place. Corporate greed knows no bounds. They can publish the best selling video game of all time and they’d still be searching for ways to monetize it further. That’s one bad thing about capitalism: if left unchecked, the only logical conclusion is to replace morality, ethics, virtues, values, and even theology with the Almighty Dollar, which is either not human enough or all too human. The jury is out on that one. But my one hope and wish is that lockboxes fuck off and die and the gluttonous greed behind them follows suit. Make Gaming Great Again! lol

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Utakata

I am all for government regulation of industry. I am not for government regulation of our lives. As it seems the latter happens more than the former. But I think I am digressing here… :(

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Knox Harrington

One gives way to the other really. The less government in general, the better in my opinion… but then again, I’ve always been more Chaotic Neutral than anything else lol

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Utakata

And yes, if you are indeed your, err…predecessor as some have indicated, I can see this. Cougars and all… >.>

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Knox Harrington

Huh?

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Utakata

That’s what my pigtails said! o.O

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Knox Harrington

Now I’m even more confused lol

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Melissa McDonald

a pretty good number of people who consider themselves Republicans are actually Libertarians, they just don’t realize it.

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Knox Harrington

I’m more independent than anything. Some things I’m liberal about. Some things I’m conservative about. The two main parties are so extreme nowadays. When the choices come down to either fascism or communism, voting for either would be anathema to democracy.

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Utakata

It’s likely the same reason why some socialists would gravitate towards the Democrats. That is, they have a choice of being part of some obscure fringe party or independence with little or no influence, or part of a major party that can effect change.

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Oleg Chebeneev

Star Citizen: I hope they fully finish Stanton System before 2019 or at least put it on PTR. I also hope to see new systems showcased at Citizencon this year even if they are early in development (we know they are working on some of them, including Odin and Terra)

WoW: I hope Blizzard will be true to their word and fully revamp open PvP system adding bounties and other cool PvP content outside BGs. I would also like to see optional challenge modes for leveling after zone scaling launches. Like built in Ironman mode.

Lost Ark: I hope it launches in Asia in 2018 and becomes a huge success so we could see western release asap and new content added frequently.

Age of Wushu 2: more info. Cmon!

Anthem: be gud pls.

I also hope Google releases its new secret VR headset and it blows everyones minds. And that big company like Sony or Facebook looks at VR environments (Project Sansar, High Fidelity, Sinewave.Space, VRChat) and launches AAA project with similar ideas in mind. That allows builders to craft worlds from assets that other people sell, with lots of possibilities of interaction there, and being able to explore it both in VR and nonVR.

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Melissa McDonald

Linden Labs will probably stand alone in creating a free and open platform for VR with Project Sansar. Their past history in creating the most open, creative, and largely unsupervised virtual worlds (Second Life) suggests it. Facebook and their billions will have a quality offering, but it will center around VR ‘shares’ and giving them to opportunity to glean way more personal data from them.

As far as I know Google doesn’t have anything in the VR pipeline that is superior to the Rift or Vive, but something roughly equal.

Varjo’s 70-megapixel VR visor dubbed “20/20” is the one I think that could be the real game-changer. Varjo may not be the company that really lands that fish, but the huge leap forward in resolution there (current visors are more like 1.5 megapixel) will incent the other manufacturers to get more serious instead of adding 1 megapixel per year / per visor release.

If I had to pick a vendor that will take VR to the next level, I’d pick Samsung.

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Oleg Chebeneev

People arent happy with Sansar atm since it doesnt provide any social interaction between users. Currently its just “Slowly walk and enjoy the view” environment.

You’re also wrong about Google. They are making headset that has 10 times bigger resolution and almost twice bigger FoV then OR or Vive. Check this video: https://youtu.be/IlADpD1fvuA?t=1356

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Veldan

I wish the best of luck to all the passionate dev teams out there that are making something good and fun and whose #1 goal is not sucking money out of their playerbase.

Most of all, I hope Camelot Unchained, Pantheon and Ashes of Creation all turn out of be amazing games and success stories (though I’m aware they won’t all release this year, if any of them even do).

Oh and I also wouldn’t mind if Saga of Lucimia manages to carve out its niche and be successful, if only because then I could laugh at a lot of MOP commenters.

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Bruno Brito

A good post-apoc sandboxy MMO that lets me play as a flamethrower-wielding plague doctor.

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connor_jones

I said years ago that I would have much rather seen Bethesda do a Fallout mmo rather than the ESO they ended up doing. As someone noted rather scathingly at the time on Facebook, ‘Just what the world needs, yet another sword and sorcery mmo.’ lol

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life_isnt_just_dank_memes

I want to read that Ashes of Creation is worth the sub. That’s it’s doing things in 2018 that deserve a sub. That means it has to be better for me than ESO, GW2 or BDO to even consider it. If you can’t go above and beyond the experiences those offer then you have the wrong business model.

I NEEEEEEED to see New World. I want to know what that game is!

Super interested for Monster Hunter World this fall on PC.

If those games and a handful of others aren’t doing something worth my time that’s ok. 2017 had AMAZING single-player games. Breath of the Wild, Horizon, AC Origins, and Divinity 2 are all incredible games. I’m ok with playing the MMOs I’m currently playing if there are more games like that coming out.

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Eamil

I hope that Ashes of Creation lives up to its lofty promises. The livestream of their alpha zero looks pretty solid for the game’s current state of development, but they have a long way to go to prove they can pull the game off well.

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Bryan Turner

I hope ANET gets its head out of its ass and make Power Reaper optimal for Raids, barring that if they’re incapable of properly balancing their game then they better have a normal or beginner version of their raids to go with their current raid difficulty (let’s call it veteran). That is what they have to do to ever have me log in and spend money on GW2 again.

Meanwhile I just hope ESO maintains what they’re doing, perhaps they should offer better looking cosmetics to help get me to spend more than $15 a month perhaps.

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Arktouros

I have no hopes.

I think Crowfall is going to end up a bust. PvP crowd will scoop it up on soft launch but that crowd is super fickle and the company seems unreliable at best. We’re a bad market to chase and as Albion’s abandonment shows we won’t give companies time to fix things. Camelot will probably pick up the PvP crowd hype after that if they come out with a beta which will drive sales for it but things will go badly for it in 2019.

Another year of expansions and the same ol MMOs we played in 2016-2017 with big corps focusing on online titles with MMO elements but little actual persistent open worlds.

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connor_jones

Well-said man, and your comment about online titles with mmo elements but no persistent open world is precisely why I’m not excited at all about Anthem.

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Bruno Brito

You think Camelot Unchained will go badly? Why?

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Arktouros

It’s a combination of a few things.

First, the PvP market…well, to be blunt, we’re pretty shitty. No one likes to lose and in a game based on competition someone is going to have to lose. A lot of PvPers it’s about image of winning and they’ll pretty much do everything they can in order to win even if it ultimately ruins the fun. A great example of this is the anti-competitive alliances we’ve seen the last few games where groups of hundreds of people will form an alliances of thousands of people with round the clock coverage for dominance. So, of course, they win resoundedly and are bored because they didn’t have to fight for it. That’s us ruining our own experience.

Second, there’s a few red flags with the game design decisions they’ve chosen. I don’t really want to get into these because they always have huge potential for change but for example asymmetrical faction balance is absolutely horrific. Every game that has had it (DAOC, Planetside, Warhammer, etc) took months and in some cases years to get right. Even when done right you will never end the debate on what side is most OP or how one side is winning because of faction balancing.

There are other issues as well (business model, nostalgia effect, value of victrory, etc) but I don’t want to turn this into a huge rant but this all leads back to the point that a large scale PvP game needs a large scale of players to really sing. Even if they have their minimum viable operating number in PvP circles as things drop off it’s a huge snowball effect because players are the content and when they leave so does the content.

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Oleg Chebeneev

I’ll be CU defender for once. PvP market is bigger then you think. I mean, look how popular are MOBAs. Alot of people love competition and there are tons of PvP servers in WoW with millions of players choosing them over PvE servers.

As for balance, people will bitch about it for ages no mater symmetrical it is or not. I dont see a flaw in 3 factions system itself. It will be a matter of how well the classes are balanced. And at least this team has experience for it from DaoC/WAR

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Arktouros

I’m actually pretty well aware how big the PvP market is and all the various forms of entertainment we’ve expanded into. It extends far beyond MOBAs but things like battle royales as well as survival games like RUST or ARK. Pointing to a game like WOW as an example of people preferring PvP is a shakey argument at best as the PvE servers and PvP servers are basically identical.

In fact I’d argue that the introduction of game modes like MOBAs and Survival games and otherwise have actually caused a great deal of previous MMO progression PvPers to stick more towards those temporary games because of the lack of effort involved. It’s very easy to hop into a game of PUBG or League for a few matches than it is to get on and have to grind out to level cap then get a group together and go PvP. I’ve seen this a lot with previous guildies who spend more time playing those games than actual MMOs anymore (and it’s not dissimilar in other guilds I’ve seen).

Giving people who are have a natural inclination to quit games reasons to quit a game is a poor decision. While, ultimately, you are correct they’ll just find another reason an asymmetrical one creates endless debate of “You won because of faction” where as you can’t make that argument when everyone has access to the same tools to be competitive. The subscription just adds a barrier to re-entry to check the game out after they’ve fixed and changed things cause who wants to gamble $15 that they might have a good time?

There’s an immense number of flaws in a 3 faction system that are too long to list. Both DAoC and WAR were unbalanced messes for the bulk of their early months while they tried to work it out. In today’s market people aren’t going to put up with that. But like I said I’d rather avoid game mechanic specifics because those have the greatest opportunity to be changed or modified.

Unfortunately what can’t be modified and what is ultimately out of a developer’s hands is the audience their game is trying to attract and, again, the PvP market is a pretty unforgiving and shitty one to cater to.

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Veldan

I’m wondering this too. Many anti-PvP people on MOP will happily predict that any PvP game fails, but Arktouros seems to hint at being a PvPer himself (using the word “we”).

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Arktouros

I’ve pretty much been PvPing since Ultima Online came out originally as a hardcore PK but have played pretty much every major title as a PvP player with a few surprising exceptions. I have decades of experience with PvP and fellow PvPers and the inherent issues that come with us as an audience and the kinds of games that get created for us.

During the “great carebearing” of games post WOW I learned to adapt and try to enjoy other aspects of games as well now. It’s been interesting to see the resurgence of PvP focused titles. Last few titles (ArcheAge, BDO) I’ve been on more of an economic kick.

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Oleg Chebeneev

They are going with subscription plan for a niche game. Thats a reciepe for disaster.

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Mark Jacobs

OC,

You mean like disaster like all the MMOs that are still using either a pure subscription model or a mixed subscription model such as WoW, ESO, SWTOR, etc?

We said that at 50K-75K subs our company could operate a profitable game. And if we deliver on the experience that we know we can, I think the numbers will be north of that. How much? I don’t know but I think a 100K RvR-focused, subscription-based game is more than possible.

Besides, when you come right down to it, how different is a game such as Star Citizen where it’s buy-to-play and then you might buy a spaceship or two as well? Even if you bought the cheaper spaceship, you’d be paying a sum that is comparable to a yearly sub for most MMOs correct? And, according to RSI’s own data, a ton of people have bought 1 or more spaceships. We only need a fraction of the same type of people who buy stuff in fantasy MMOs to look at our game and do the math that a sub-based game that doesn’t have RMTs as well is no more expensive that most of the games that they are playing. Plus, we have the advantage of not having to carry the cost of the free-to-play crowd, nor the design issues that come with having to find ways to sell stuff to your own playerbase again, again, and again.

I’ve heard so many times over the decades that either subscription games would fail dating back from the UO days to now. And as history has shown, those than have predicted the death of subscription games or that they can’t succeed because they are subscription games have been wrong every time and will be so again.

A subscription game might be more successful if it goes either FTP/BTP, there is certainly true, but I’ll stick to the model that I believe is the fairest to the majority players.

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Oleg Chebeneev

>Besides, when you come right down to it, how different is a game such as Star Citizen where it’s buy-to-play and then you might buy a spaceship or two as well? Even if you bought the cheaper spaceship, you’d be paying a sum that is comparable to a yearly sub for most MMOs correct?

No, not correct. Im not planning to buy any ships beyond starting pack and will earn anything in game. So its only 40$ one time purchase for me. Also I dont consider B2P a great model. I think its better then P2P, but I also think F2P is the way to go for modern MMOs.

>I’ve heard so many times over the decades that either subscription games would fail dating back from the UO days to now. And as history has shown, those than have predicted the death of subscription games or that they can’t succeed because they are subscription games have been wrong every time and will be so again.

Its actually completely opposite. New MMO devs thinking they are making something special and trying to compete with tons of F2P MMOs by launching their game with sub. And getting crushed by reality.

In fact pretty much all popular MMORPGs that had forced subscription model turned to F2P. This includes DDO, LoTRO, AoC, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, SWToR, TERA, Aion, RIFT, STO, DCU, AoC, Wildstar and many others. If they havent switch to F2P they would be either deserted of shut down by now. There are only 3 notable exceptions: WoW, EVE and FF14. Two of them are very succesful titles based on insanely popular IPs and one is very unique and high quality game that has no competition and gathered dedicated community throught many years.

Its your game and your call ofc, and we’ll see who is right. Good thing for you, if sub model wont work out, you can always switch to F2P like the rest. Im pretty sure many new devs who launch MMO with sub are planning future F2P swap from start and releasing sub model only to get more profit while game is hot post-launch.

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Daniel Miller

Wow talk about NOOB!

You mentioned many sub games, and a game subbing longer than wow is still sub based. FFXI would love a word with you.

Even everquest did so f2p or whatever only a year ago. same for ultima.

But I state again FFXI, sub longer than wow, longer than EQ, still 12 a month.

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Oleg Chebeneev

When i talked about exceptions my key word was “notable”. I dont consider a game that is basically on life support without much future development to be notable

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Kickstarter Donor
Vunak

I love it when people say the sub isn’t viable because of the games you listed. When you can go back through and look and see how terrible the development cycle and how many issues those games had at launch.

The problem isn’t the sub, its the quality of the game you are getting for a sub. If a game can come out and justify a sub unlike the games you listed it would succeed similar to how games of the past did and how FFXIV and WoW are.

Switching to a F2P model didn’t all of a sudden make those games smash hits either. Vanguard is already dead. TERA is on its way out. WildStar im sure has NCSOFT hovering over the ABORT button. SWToR is down to what 4 servers now when it started at something like 120 servers.

You can’t use the IP issue because Star Wars is a massive IP and it couldn’t sustain P2P where as FFXIV can.

Quality is the issue. Not the sub business model

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Oleg Chebeneev

You’re absolutely right. If you can create a pure masterpiece, a AAAA quality game that puts WoW to shame, that looks incredible, plays amazingly, addicting af, satisfies every player needs, stays fun for years and can be called a true next-gen MMORPG, Im sure there will be alot of people who will pay sub for it, me included.

So. How many games like that you know?

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Kickstarter Donor
Vunak

FFXIV doesn’t tick hardly any of those boxes yet its still running on a P2P model and is successful.

You don’t have to go beyond the realm of possibility to survive as a P2P game or thrive as one.

Just don’t create a complete pile of !@#$ for your audience and slap a AAA stamp on it and expect people to chomp it up like SWTOR did or some of those other games.

Again a quality product. Not something that you can’t even do endgame content in the first few weeks because of glaring bugs. aka SWTOR.

FFXIV and WoW are both well polished, optimized games with a lot of end game content to do. Those other games didn’t have that. Some of them even after years and years don’t have that. TERA for example.

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Mark Jacobs

Great answer, I don’t agree with all of it but a great answer, thanks OC!

I’m heading into office now and am swamped all day or I would write a longer response. I will say one thing, Camelot Unchained will never go FTP while I’m running CSE. I made that promise to our KS backers and no matter what criticism I, like other devs deserve, I don’t renege on a promise. As folks have heard me say here, there, and everywhere, that’s why I only make promises when I know I can fulfill them.

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Daniel Miller

I am one of those backers. Lets hope that promise outlives FFXI :) not iv

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Hehe, agreed.

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Patreon Donor
Veldan

Why? They’ve given numbers before about how many subbers they’d need to survive, and those numbers were definitely within the realm of possibility. I remember thinking they’d likely be exceeded.

Yes they’re a niche game that will have a smaller playerbase, but they also have a smaller team.

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Mark Jacobs

Correct Veldan.

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